pastors and the codependent wife
Years ago Lisa and I read an excellent little book called Codependency No More by Melody Beattie. At the time we read the book we were suffering the fallout for extricating ourselves from a toxic and codependent relationship with the church and some of its leaders. It had an impact on me because it got me thinking about my codependent relationship to the church. I deal with codependency all the time. I’ve come to the conclusion that one of the most prevalent codependencies is between a pastor and his or her church. I am prone to it just like everyone else. It is an ongoing struggle because, no matter how resolute I might be in maintaining a healthy relationship with my church, there is another partner involved… the church itself. The gravitational pull of all organizations is toward codependency, and it takes the diligence of both parties to strive for health between them. I personally believe that the helpers (pastors, employees, civil servants, clients, etc.) usually become the victims, and for a lone victim to stand up to an entire institution for the sake of his or her own health is often quite costly.
This list, as I looked over it before posting it, can apply to any relationship. It could apply to an employee’s relationship to his employer and company. Any relationship! Check it out and see how you do. In this list, I presume, for simplicity’s sake, that we are the codependent wife and our church, institution, company or whatever partner, is the husband:
- I believe I can change him.
- I depend on his money to live.
- I would rather be loved poorly than to not be loved at all.
- I believe there is a decent person deep inside of him.
- I can’t picture life without him.
- I help him. He needs me.
- I keep things calm by repressing my true feelings and personality.
- I accept that I am called to suffer for this, even though I am often sad or even depressed.
- I feel incredible guilt even when I just think about leaving.
- I can’t listen to the advice of others to get out. They don’t understand.
Can you say any or all of these things in reference to the relationship in question? Then it may be codependent and unhealthy and something may need to be done. And it is up to you! Tomorrow I might post on what we can do if we discover we are in a codependent relationship. Or, if it isn’t codependent but heading that way, what we can do to bring health into this relationship, if possible.
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cartoon: logically speaking
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prayer from the cell: getting it right
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cartoon: reading the signs
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cartoon: the love trap
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Lonnie Frisbee, the Church, and Being Gay
A few weeks ago I ordered Lonnie Frisbee: The Life and Death of a Hippie Preacher. It arrived yesterday and I watched it last night. I don’t want to discuss the technical aspects of the film at all. I want to address its message.
Beginning in the Jesus Movement in the early 60’s, Lonnie became very influential in the beginning success of Chuck Smith’s Calvary Chapel movement, as well as John Wimber’s Vineyard movement, of which I am a part. After a long season with a powerful impact on the church, he was exposed as gay. Then he was methodically removed from visibility. He was eventually fired. Then rejected and ostracized. And now he is effectively written out of the histories of both of these movements. He died of AIDS in 1993 at the age of 43.
What more can be said? I realize that this documentary in many ways is sympathetic to Lonnie Frisbee and critical of those who rejected him. However, this has been my observation about the church as well. It is no surprise. It is disturbing but predictable. What more can be said? The documentary provoked today’s cartoon.
But one of the things this video left me with was the very real fact that even though the Vineyard has written him out of our history, he is a part of our foundational roots. The issue of being gay in the church is a very real issue today, one I wish to address and deal with, and this video suggested to me that the Vineyard might be one of the places to do this well.
If you liked this post, or would like to use it, please buy me a beer!Tags: church, david_hayward, gay, homosexual, lonnie_frisbee, nakedpastor
cartoon: gay-friendly?
Tags: church, david_hayward, gay, gay_friendly, nakedpastor, religion
Open Round Table #3
We had another Open Round Table meeting for our church community again last night. Although we have a kind of body of executive elders to make crucial financial decisions, etc., about the church, we want the oversight of the church to be open and collegial. We don’t have a membership role at Rothesay Vineyard. So anyone who is at all interested in the welfare of the church and wishes to have a voice in its health is welcome to come. Generally speaking there are approximately 20 or so people who come. I would like to see more come. But it is totally volunteer based. No pressure on anyone to attend or skip. Anyone can play.
And this isn’t just talk. We are serious about it. I opened the meeting by reading Psalm 133 where it talks about unity and harmony. How good and pleasant it is when brothers and sisters dwell together in unity! After some beautifully picturesque descriptions of what this unity looks like, it closes by saying that where this unity is kept, “there the Lord ordains his blessing”. I feel it is our task to maintain harmony. God, in turn, will bless that. Unity and harmony is blessed. We have these meetings so that we can maintain harmony among ourselves. This is an exercise in unity. They can hear my heart, and I can hear theirs. Together we can hear the heart of God for the church and the heart of the church for God.
As usual I went into the meeting nervous because I don’t carry an agenda with me. I try to empty my mind of all motive and desire so that we can have a true and open dialog. Together we will care for this community and through our conversation discover how to do this well. As usual there are awkward moments of silence at the beginning. But once a conversation starts, that hour and a half is a wonderfully chaotic exchange of energy and ideas. We don’t reach any conclusions necessarily. We just get a feel for each other and the community. These are a few of the things that emerged in our conversation:
- We are different and unique and hard to describe. But we like it and wouldn’t trade it for anything else. What we don’t need is a mission statement or a vision. What we might need is a language to describe ourselves. What we might need is what the Bible calls giving a reason for the hope that is within us. We believe that as we shine our own light with truth and integrity, that this will be the way we love those around us.
- We are sitting on a huge asset of over 15 acres of prime commercial or industrial land. We also own a very functional building. However, we have developed in such a way that it doesn’t really match our personality as a community right now. We are not sure what to do about it yet, but there was a lot of energy and discussion about what the possibilities are. I admired the sense of adventure the people shared, as well as their courageous willingness to take risks to become more integrated in all that we are and do.
For the past couple of weeks I have been hearing lots of criticism and negative rumors about me and our church. I allowed them to get me down. I would enter very dark moments when I questioned my own call, the church, and even my own sanity. But when those who care about the community gathered together last night, all those phantom rumors evaporated in our mutual love for God, each other and the church. I left encouraged and fortified to fulfill my call as a pastor, as I am sure everyone else there did.
If you liked this post, or would like to use it, please buy me a beer!Tags: church, community, david_hayward, dialog, nakedpastor, open_round_table
cartoon: green god
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pastor as conductor
Thanks to my online friend John over at microclesia for recommending this video to me as an insightful model for ministry and church community. John writes:
Creatives are wired to contribute. Creatives aspire to have their voices play a constructive role in community formation and direction, including (especially) religious community. Great orchestra conductors become conduits for this individual creativity to flourish. An intentional virtual network is like a well-led orchestra with every player listening carefully to the ensemble while masterfully contributing their individual part.
This gets close to what I am trying to say. Enjoy Israeli orchestral conductor Itay Talgam share his perspective on conductors.
Tags: community, conducting, david_hayward, leadership, nakedpastor, youtube







