what is and what isn’t covered by the blood

"Covered by the Blood" cartoon by nakedpastor David Hayward
“Covered by the Blood” cartoon by nakedpastor David Hayward

Christian leaders have been exposed as having sex with minors and having Ashley Madison accounts.

Apparently, it’s all forgiven and covered by the blood of Jesus Christ.

But God help you if you’re gay.

I want to be clear here: I’m not equating being gay with immorality.

One might argue that the first is actions and the second is a state of being. The first is behavior, the second is identity.

But isn’t it becoming more and more obvious that our actions are the fruit of our identity? That our behavior is an expression of who we are?

Basic psychology.


47 Replies to “what is and what isn’t covered by the blood”

  1. it is ALL covered under the blood. One sin does not make another worse or better. Whether you shoot a bb or a bazooka through a glass, it is still marred and imperfect and we would reject that glass to go into a window on our house. Same with God, that is why He sent the Master Gl(ass) fixer. But it all depends on if you want Him to fix your gl(ass).

  2. Your cartoon is sadly accurate.

    The politics and priorities of the US Evangelical church baffle me.

    Their need to overlook the Parable of the Good Samaritan, and its lessons, boggle my mind. This Parable is ‘how’ Jesus defined ‘love your neighbor as yourself’.

    The US Evangelicals love to ‘strain at the gnat’ of homosexuality, and swallow the camel of ignoring the wounded, the poor, the hungry and the thirsty, the homeless and those in need of clothing, and the sick and incarcerated.

    They debate ‘identity’, ‘group impact’, ‘behavior’, ‘fidelity’, ‘the most acceptable will of God’, and on and on.

    Per the Book of Galatians, the question of ‘sin or not’ is a valid point to debate in Elementary School; but we can graduate from elementary debates of the Law, and enter into the great dialog about ‘how’ to live the Law of Christ and ‘how’ to experience the Unity of All Believers.

    I vote we graduate.

  3. I have grown up in the church. I see two Christianities today. The political Christianity and the faith/religion Christianity. To be honest I probably straddle both, but I only claim the latter. Some of the things Republicans do in the name of my faith make me so sad.

  4. Sexuality is schizophrenic in Fundamentalist Christianity. Sexual assault and affairs between married men and women are not so bad (of course we expect this behavior from men because they are sex addicts by default), but God forbid if you are single or gay and having sex. Shows who the church really values and protects, regardless of the fact that it is made up of all the groups of people listed above.

  5. Being Covered under B L O O D is bizarre from the beginning.
    Iron Age stupidity.
    Why can’t Christians see how silly that is?

    But you are right, David.
    If they really believe it, then think they are covered but others aren’t, that is even more ridiculous.

    Seriously though: “Covered by Blood”!

  6. That’s not really the church I know. Not entirely. I hate how the Christian church is so married in peoples mind with American Republicanism. These are two distinct religions.

  7. Damn!

    (oh, I guess that is to the point — I am damned — well, unless Calvin was right, then once saved (by THE blood), always saved). No bleach will clean this soul after Jesus went and bled all over it.
    But if the Arminians are right, well …

    Sacrifice theology is hard stuff — gotta be smarter than me.

    Interestingly, my son just asked me what “Holocaust” meant.
    Apparently a Roman custom of sacrifice of burning (caust) the whole (holo) animal to the gods. Later it became the term for a catastrophe and later yet, for one horrible catastrophe.

    Blood by animal or human to cover sins is stupid! (don’t you agree, David == ooops, you probably aren’t allowed to be honest on that point). 😉

  8. Me:
    Blood by animal or human to cover sins is stupid! (don’t you agree, David …

    Of course it’s an archaic practice based on an archaic notion.

    But OK, if you want to think it animal/human blood sacrifice for sins is a politically acceptable, intelligent idea (albeit archaic) then whatever caveats gets you more friends, is fine with me. 🙂

  9. Stupid? No. It is a practice that was relevant in that day of sacrificing animals and children to the gods. God borrowed it, removed the human sacrifice, and gave the Hebrews a comparatively tame alternative, the law. He then culminated the symbol in the willful giving of his son as an ending sacrifice for all the sins and misgivings of mankind. I think that most of this is baby talk, a way for the infant human race to understand his own nature.

    Archaic? That presupposes that we aren’t still infants as a species. I personally think that general human progress is the greatest of humanist delusions.

  10. So, Jordan, you think David has been tricked by humanist delusions and has lost his humility to see God’s truth?

    Did Yahweh (your god) borrow Slavery the same way?
    Slavery isn’t stupid either, is it?

  11. Which always reminds me of the following words of wisdom:

    Professor JD Crossan notes from his book, Who is Jesus–

    “Moreover, an atonement theology that says God sacrifices his own son in place of humans who needed to be punished for their sins might make some Christians love Jesus, but it is an obscene picture of God. It is almost heavenly child abuse, and may infect our imagination at more earthly levels as well. I do not want to express my faith through a theology that pictures God demanding blood sacrifices in order to be reconciled to us.”

    God the Father as a child abuser – what irony!!!

  12. God the Father as a child abuser – what irony!!!

    Then you truly do not understand the true nature of God…He saw that none of us would be good enough to attain heaven (except little children who die at an early age) so He sent the only One who had never sinned, who even though he sweated blood and asked if there was any other way, but ultimately said, ” not my will but Yours,” paid our way into Heaven.

  13. esbee,

    Luke 22:42 “not my will but Yours” . Said passage fails rigorous historic testing i.e. there is no proof that Jesus uttered these words. e.g. http://www.faithfutures.org/JDB/jdb203.html and Professor Gerd Ludemann’s analysis in his book, Jesus After 2000 Years , p. 99 “The historic value is nil.”

  14. Jordan,

    Jesus was no Messiah. And consider the following:

    Jesus was summarily crucified for being a temple rabble-rouser by
    the Roman troops in Jerusalem serving under Pilate,

    He was buried in an unmarked grave and still lies
    a-mouldering in the ground somewhere outside of

    Said Jesus’ story was embellished and “mythicized” by
    many semi-fiction writers. A descent into Hell, a bodily resurrection
    and ascension stories were promulgated to compete with the
    Caesar myths. Said stories were so popular that they
    grew into a religion known today as Catholicism/Christianity
    and featuring dark-age, daily wine to blood and bread to body rituals
    called the eucharistic sacrifice of the non-atoning Jesus.

    Actually, there are a number of people directly responsible for the”Man-God-ity” aka Christianity. One of the most overlooked is Pontius Pilate. He could just as easily sent Jesus to the salt mines and then there would have been no sacrifice for your sins. Hmmmm, a religion based on the whims of a Roman procurator??? Maybe you should rethink the importance of the crucifixion and concentrate on the Beatitudes!!!!

  15. Your wonderful naivete tickles me Bernardo. I don’t mean that in a bad way. I am naive about a great many things myself. I’m not trying to be offensive. Its just that I’ve heard this hogwash for so many years that it just sounds funny to me now. I’m sorry. I’m really not trying to be a dick.

  16. @ Jordan:

    Your force-fed blood salvation theology tripe is so generic and unthought out, it makes me giggle. I heard that hogwash for so many years, it tickles me to hear someone vomit it back up. Not meaning to be offensive of course — it just sounds funny to me.

    [yeah, right]

  17. I believe that if I don’t put fuel in my car it will stop running and if I stop eating I will die.

    I believe some foods taste better than others to me.
    I believe if I don’t work, I won’t get paid.
    And much much more.

    Is that what you mean?
    My website has all the other stuff.

  18. Jordan and Dave,

    You will have to read the studies of contemporary historians and NT scholars to see how they decide the authenticity of historical events and passages. Rigorous conclusions rely on the number of independent attestations, the time of the publications, the content as it relates to the subject and time period, and any related archaeological evidence. Professors JD Crossan and G. Ludemann’s studies are top notch in this regard.

  19. A million times? Hardly but will continue noting the importance of such studies as they are the utmost importance to those really interested in the historical Jesus.

  20. But the facts show that there was an historical Christ/Jesus:

    To wit: (a bit lengthy but it is an important issue)

    Once again references and commentary to the existence of an historical Jesus as studied in depth by many contemporary NT exegetes:

    From Professors Crossan and Watts’ book, Who is Jesus.

    “That Jesus was crucified under Pontius Pilate, as the Creed states, is as certain as anything historical can ever be.

    “ The Jewish historian, Josephus and the pagan historian Tacitus both agree that Jesus was executed by order of the Roman governor of Judea. And is very hard to imagine that Jesus’ followers would have invented such a story unless it indeed happened.

    “While the brute fact that of Jesus’ death by crucifixion is historically certain, however, those detailed narratives in our present gospels are much more problematic. ”

    “My best historical reconstruction would be something like this. Jesus was arrested during the Passover festival, most likely in response to his action in the Temple. Those who were closest to him ran away for their own safety.

    I do not presume that there were any high-level confrontations between Caiaphas and Pilate and Herod Antipas either about Jesus or with Jesus. No doubt they would have agreed before the festival that fast action was to be taken against any disturbance and that a few examples by crucifixion might be especially useful at the outset. And I doubt very much if Jewish police or Roman soldiers needed to go too far up the chain of command in handling a Galilean peasant like Jesus. It is hard for us to imagine the casual brutality with which Jesus was probably taken and executed. All those “last week” details in our gospels, as distinct from the brute facts just mentioned, are prophecy turned into history, rather than history remembered.”

    See also Professor Crossan’s reviews of the existence of Jesus in his other books especially, The Historical Jesus and also Excavating Jesus (with Professor Jonathan Reed doing the archeology discussion) .

    Other NT exegetes to include members of the Jesus Seminar have published similar books with appropriate supporting references.

    Part of Crossan’s The Historical Jesus has been published online at books.google.com/books.

    There is also a search engine for this book on the right hand side of the opening page. e.g. Search Josephus

    See also Wikipedia’s review on the historical Jesus to include the Tacitus’ reference to the crucifixion of Jesus.

    From ask.com,

    “One of the greatest historians of ancient Rome, Cornelius Tacitus is a primary source for much of what is known about life the first and second centuries after the life of Jesus. His most famous works, Histories and Annals, exist in fragmentary form, though many of his earlier writings were lost to time. Tacitus is known for being generally reliable (if somewhat biased toward what he saw as Roman immorality) and for having a uniquely direct (if not blunt) writing style.

    Then there are these scriptural references:

    Crucifixion of Jesus:(1) 1 Cor 15:3b; (2a) Gos. Pet. 4:10-5:16,18-20; 6:22; (2b) Mark 15:22-38 = Matt 27:33-51a = Luke 23:32-46; (2c) John 19:17b-25a,28-36; (3) Barn. 7:3-5; (4a) 1 Clem. 16:3-4 (=Isaiah 53:1-12); (4b) 1 Clem. 16.15-16 (=Psalm 22:6-8); (5a) Ign. Mag. 11; (5b) Ign. Trall. 9:1b; (5c) Ign. Smyrn. 1.2.- (read them all at wiki.faithfutures. Crucifixion org/index.php/005_Crucifixion_Of_Jesus )

    Added suggested readings:

    o 1. Historical Jesus Theories, earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html – the names of many of the contemporary historical Jesus scholars and the ti-tles of their over 100 books on the subject.

    2. Early Christian Writings, earlychristianwritings.com/
    – a list of early Christian documents to include the year of publication–

    30-60 CE Passion Narrative
    40-80 Lost Sayings Gospel Q
    50-60 1 Thessalonians
    50-60 Philippians
    50-60 Galatians
    50-60 1 Corinthians
    50-60 2 Corinthians
    50-60 Romans
    50-60 Philemon
    50-80 Colossians
    50-90 Signs Gospel
    50-95 Book of Hebrews
    50-120 Didache
    50-140 Gospel of Thomas
    50-140 Oxyrhynchus 1224 Gospel
    50-200 Sophia of Jesus Christ
    65-80 Gospel of Mark
    70-100 Epistle of James
    70-120 Egerton Gospel
    70-160 Gospel of Peter
    70-160 Secret Mark
    70-200 Fayyum Fragment
    70-200 Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs
    73-200 Mara Bar Serapion
    80-100 2 Thessalonians
    80-100 Ephesians
    80-100 Gospel of Matthew
    80-110 1 Peter
    80-120 Epistle of Barnabas
    80-130 Gospel of Luke
    80-130 Acts of the Apostles
    80-140 1 Clement
    80-150 Gospel of the Egyptians
    80-150 Gospel of the Hebrews
    80-250 Christian Sibyllines
    90-95 Apocalypse of John
    90-120 Gospel of John
    90-120 1 John
    90-120 2 John
    90-120 3 John
    90-120 Epistle of Jude
    93 Flavius Josephus
    100-150 1 Timothy
    100-150 2 Timothy
    100-150 Titus
    100-150 Apocalypse of Peter
    100-150 Secret Book of James
    100-150 Preaching of Peter
    100-160 Gospel of the Ebionites
    100-160 Gospel of the Nazoreans
    100-160 Shepherd of Hermas
    100-160 2 Peter
     4. Jesus Database, http://www.faithfutures.o-rg/JDB/intro.html –”The JESUS DATABASE is an online a-nnotated inventory of the traditions concerning the life and teachings of Jesus that have survived from the first three centuries of the Common Era. It includes both canonical and extra-canonical materials, and is not limited to the traditions found within the Christian New Testament.”
    5. Josephus on Jesus mtio.com/articles/bis-sar24.htm
    6. The Jesus Seminar, http://en.wikipedia.o-rg/wiki/Jesus_Seminar
    7. http://www.biblicalartifacts.com/items/785509/item785509biblicalartifacts.html – books on the health and illness during the time of the NT
    8. Economics in First Century Palestine, K.C. Hanson and D. E. Oakman, Palestine in the Time of Jesus, Fortress Press, 1998.
    9.The Gn-ostic Jesus
    (Part One in a Two-Part Series on A-ncient and Modern G-nosticism)
    by Douglas Gro-othuis: http://www.equip.o-rg/articles/g-nosticism-and-the-g-nostic-jesus/
    10. The interpretation of the Bible in the Church, Pontifical Biblical Commission
    Presented on March 18, 1994
    11. The Jesus Database- newer site:
    12. Jesus Database with the example of Supper and Eucharist:
    13. Josephus on Jesus by Paul Maier:
    13. http://www.textweek.com/mtlk/jesus.htmm- Historical Jesus Studies
    14. The Greek New Testament: laparola.net/greco/
    15. D-iseases in the Bible:

    16. Religion on- Line (6000 articles on the hi-story of religion, churches, theologies,
    theologians, ethics, etc. religion-online.org/
    17. The New Testament Gateway – Internet NT ntgate-way.com/
    18 Writing the New Testament- e-xi-sting copies, oral tradition etc.
    19. JD Crossan’s c-onclusions about the a-uthencity of most of the NT based on the above plus the c-onclusions of other NT exegetes in the last 200 years:
    20. Early Jewish Writings- Josephus and his books by title with the complete translated work in English :earlyjewishwritings.com/josephus.html
    21. Luke and Josephus- was there a connection?
    22. NT and beyond time line:
    23. St. Paul’s Time line with discussion of important events:
    24. See http://www.amazon.com for a list of JD Crossan’s books and those of the other Jesus Seminarians: Reviews of said books are included and selected pages can now be viewed on Amazon. Some books can be found on-line at Google Books.
    25. Father Edward Schillebeeckx’s words of wisdom as found in his books.
    27. The books of the following : Professors Gerd Ludemann, Marcus Borg, Paula Fredriksen, Elaine Pagels, Karen Armstrong and Bishop NT Wright.
    28. Father Raymond Brown’s An Introduction to the New Testament, Doubleday, NY, 1977, 878 pages, with Nihil obstat and Imprimatur.
    29. Luke Timothy Johnson’s book The Real Jesus

  21. @ Bernardo:

    Suggestion: Get your own blog and save us all the grief by linking to this sort of stuff.

    Here you are unaware that we are all just scrolling past your rambling, verbose, repetitive evangelizing of your favorite authors. But if you had a blog and then linked to your favorite diatribes on your own blog you could check your blog stats, and see that we are ignoring you.

    Otherwise, you continue here delusional about your internet impact. But maybe you like it that way.

    @ David,
    Maybe you should put up a comment criteria of no cutting and pasting more than so many words. I remember another commentor of yours that use to do that. I don’t see her here anymore — she was quote-manic. Well, Bernardo is sort of like that too.

    Then you could clean up messes like this. He needs quarantined ! 😉

  22. Oh wow. Ya Bernardo. PLEASE stop doing that. My spam filter recognizes it as spam because, well, it kind of IS! We’re more interested in your thoughts. We don’t need a zillion references as if that lends weight to your voice. Your voice is enough.

  23. The comments and references on the historical Jesus were generated via years of study of said references gleaning the important aspects of each. Said comments and references were presented to make the case for said historical Jesus thereby saving everyone a lot of time and money. However, if you are not convinced, you can always peruse ” Did Jesus Exist?: The Historical Argument for Jesus of Nazareth [Hardcover]”,
    Bart D. Ehrman (Author) (who basically rehashes my references and comments)

    “A Large numbers of atheists, humanists, and conspiracy theorists are raising one of the most pressing questions in the history of religion: “Did Jesus exist at all?” Was he invented out of whole cloth for nefarious purposes by those seeking to control the masses? Or was Jesus such a shadowy figure—far removed from any credible historical evidence—that he bears no meaningful resemblance to the person described in the Bible?
    In Did Jesus Exist? historian and Bible expert Bart Ehrman confronts these questions, vigorously defends the historicity of Jesus, and provides a compelling portrait of the man from Nazareth. The Jesus you discover here may not be the Jesus you had hoped to meet—but he did exist, whether we like it or not.”

    Said book simply presents the information that I collected long before Ehrman’s book. My information was free. You can buy Ehrman’s book on Amazon or get a copy at your local library.


  24. Miller’s book price is $125.56 from Amazon. A bit much since it appears, based on the reviews, a rehash of the conclusions of the likes of Professors Crossan, Ludemann, Borg, et al. Miller is currently unemployed as per Amazon’s review.

    A note from Amazon’s reviews; (the other two were very postitive)

    “118 dollars for a less than 200 page book? This is clearly agenda driven, and out of the price range of the students they are trying to reach. :

  25. Richard and I have communicated. I told him the book was outrageously priced. Like all textbooks are. I strongly advised him to make it paperback, affordable, and to take out all the other languages… to make it readable. It is full of latin, greek, hebrew, aramaic, french, german, etc. It is difficult to read. But it is full of excellent information. He carries the ball further than Crossan and company, IMO.

  26. For a listing of Professor Crossan’s studies and those of other contemporary historic Jesus scholars, see Historical Jesus Theories, earlychristianwritings.com/theories.html – and the titles of their over 100 books on the subject. Miller did not make the list. You can also access some of Professor Crossan’s studies on line at Google Books. And added note: Professor Ludemann’s studies published in his book, Jesus After 2000 Years has 695 pages ($32.97 hardback). Two of Professor Crossan’s studies, Excavating Jesus: Beneath the Stones, Behind the Texts has 320 pages, $15.22 softback, and The Historical Jesus, softback, 544 pages, $13.95

    Crossan’s inventory from The Historical Jesus is also available free on line at http://wiki.faithfutures.org/index.php?title=Crossan_Inventory with added NT inventory available free on line at http://www.faithfutures.org/JDB/intro.html

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