Comments on: My Vision is to Have No Vision: Part 2

By: jon birch

jon birch — Sun, 20 May 2007 10:58:07 +0000

thanx ttm… as you know, we brits, although different (we’re a little island… that makes us a bit paranoid, grumpy and self important) we still seem to take from american culture… our corporations and big businesses are proparbly very similar to yours, vision driven. the best example is in the ‘where there’s blame there’s a claim’ culture… eg. fall downstairs, take someone to court, get award a million quid and live the dream!… all for no effort. i hate the way our culture is going in that respect… it makes people scared to help others or do anything really… a great example of vision trampling on the here and now and the selfish drive that vision can inspire.
our marriages are in a similar state to yours, the statistics i believe are the same in the church as they are in the rest of the culture… could be said, that the marriage didn’t live up to the vision!
in other ways though, it’s a great little country. we cancelled the 3rd world debt… and i know that had nothing to do with vision… our chancellor, who is a methodist, looked at the figures and they didn’t add up and he couldn’t square it with his beliefs, he thought it was unfair and so for him it was a ‘no-brainer’.
so we’re a right old mixed bag here…

By: Adam P. Newton

Adam P. Newton — Fri, 18 May 2007 16:39:09 +0000

You’re right Fred — Vision doesn’t just mean future. I know that & I agree with that. But that’s not how “vision” is defined in a great many churches these days. What Sarah is saying is what I’ve said before in conversations with my friends — the church gets so wrapped up in their vision for the future & their vision for eternity that they aren’t able to see in the here & now. If your church has a vision for right now, this instant, this immediate need, then I’m excited to hear about that, because you stand in the minority.

And concerning vision all the time, I know that no one here is advocating that, but again, there are unhealthy church cultures that socialize their members to believe that, unless they HAVE the vision for the future (i.e. the one that matches their pastor’s vision EXACTLY), they’re not the Christian they’re supposed to be and not good enough to serve in the Kingdom.

I know that not all churches are like this, but I’ve been in enough churches & sold enough books in my 6 (yes, 6) years of Christian retailing to know that this definition of “vision” is the majority one in LP/E/F churches in America.

By: Fred

Fred — Fri, 18 May 2007 12:11:06 +0000

Give me a break, sarah. Vision is not just about the future…it IS about now! Give him bread NOW. THAT is vision. We call our church a “vision-driven church” and the church has been involved in the community from day one–soup kitchen, clothing center, etc. Vision doesn’t just mean future.

By: ttm

ttm — Fri, 18 May 2007 03:26:27 +0000

Jon Birch:

Yes, we Americans do seem to thrive on having a vision and being goal obsessed and making that “American dream” a reality. We are taught from an early age that goal setting is necessary, that bigger is better, that lack of success means lack of gumption, etc., etc. It’s hard for most Americans to really kick back and relax.

This emphasis on self-improvement and goal setting has permeated the American church in a big way. It has permeated families in a big way. And not always with the best of results.

I think that this emphasis on the goals–the dream–the vision–has become one of many masks we wear. Behind it, marriages and families and churches are falling apart; but it’s okay because the numbers on the papers look good. There are “growing” megachurches that don’t remove former members names from the roster, marriages of twenty years that have been dead for eight, families whose smiling faces at Disneyworld can’t be found anywhere behind closed doors at home. America is paying a price for the “dream” because we can’t fix what we don’t acknowledge. And over-preoccupation with the dream takes our focus from the real issues.

Is it this way in other cultures? I weep for mine, but I suspect that we are not really all that different from many other places in the world.