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	<title>Comments on: Atheism, Theism, and the Anatomy of Hate</title>
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	<link>http://www.nakedpastor.com/archives/920</link>
	<description>David Hayward is an artist trapped in a pastor&#039;s body, stripping to the essential.</description>
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		<title>By: Adrian</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedpastor.com/archives/920/comment-page-1#comment-17661</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Aug 2007 10:20:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nakedpastor.com/archives/920#comment-17661</guid>
		<description>God loves Atheists, they just can&#039;t believe it.  (Little Joke)

I am a Christian and I have noticed a lot more Atheist comments lately.  Even when, say on youtube, the topic is not religious there seems to very often be some random anti-religion comment.  Quite often they come off as quite arrogant in their beliefs.  Maybe this is because I am a Christian and I feel it more.  But the words: idiot(s), grow up, myth, delusion etc. etc. are not positive or even neutral words. They are designed to provoke at the very least.  I suspect a lot of atheist novelist are more neutral, but online there is less restraint.  I have read a little of God Delusion (Dawkins Book) and I have to say his language is pretty provocative most of the time.  If you want a truly neutral and open look at Jesus and his life, look at:

&quot;The Case for Christ&quot; - Lee Strobel

This shows true interview transcripts with most of Americas top experts on the New Testament.  Lee Strobel is a very well known Journalist (he revealed the Ford Pinto Case among others) who considered himself an Atheist.  Then his wife became a Christian.  It was the change he saw in his wife that prompted him to seek the truth about Jesus.

He read most of the main atheist books etc. in preparation to meet these people, he asked pretty hard questions.  He came away with this conclusion after months of interviews.  Jesus is historically correct, the gospels are very reliable...basically Jesus is who he says He is.  

This book is very thorougher and would stand up in a court of law (hence the name).  He looks at evidence in a very logical and straight forward way.  He doesn&#039;t preach so much as present the evidence for you to make up your own mind.  

Christians are not (always) idiots (though there are some nutters out there...wow...), or deluded.  In fact, these days many Christians are forced to look at their faith more carefully than ever (because of many theories that come from Atheists, many very logical and well thought out).   I had to, I had many doubts.  But I looked the evidence and I conclude myself, YES Jesus IS LORD!  

Now, I also think many people who are Atheist tend to (ironically) taint their research by not considering the fact that maybe, just maybe, there could be a God.  If you start with the assumption that God doesn&#039;t exist how can you ever believe?  No, that is impossible.  Some people don&#039;t believe the holocaust took place too.  Take the Jesus Seminar for an example.  Here are a group of theologians who tried to test if what Jesus said was what he really said.  However, from the outset they concluded that miracles and the supernatural cannot exist.  This is not scientific is it?  I mean, if you try to research something and you don&#039;t consider all the possibilities, how is that an academic approach?  It isn&#039;t, it&#039;s just speculation.

Now, here inlies the problem really.
1. Atheists don&#039;t want to believe God can exist (they discard it outright).
2. Theists don&#039;t want to believe God doesn&#039;t exist. (the cannot disregard that perhaps he doesn&#039;t exist either).

So I believe, it takes an agnostic approach to be truly fair to both arguments.  You need to approach the topic with an open mind.  You need to consider that facts and theories on both sides and decide for yourself what is true.

On this matter it is the heart that decides.  The heart cannot be measured and ultimately this is the Christians greatest weapon (so to speak).  How did Jesus say people would recognize his disciples?
&quot;By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.&quot; - John 13:35

Christians, show love, love your enemies.  This is the way.  Logic and reason will not, ultimately, work.  It takes a step of Love. 

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+13</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>God loves Atheists, they just can&#8217;t believe it.  (Little Joke)</p>
<p>I am a Christian and I have noticed a lot more Atheist comments lately.  Even when, say on youtube, the topic is not religious there seems to very often be some random anti-religion comment.  Quite often they come off as quite arrogant in their beliefs.  Maybe this is because I am a Christian and I feel it more.  But the words: idiot(s), grow up, myth, delusion etc. etc. are not positive or even neutral words. They are designed to provoke at the very least.  I suspect a lot of atheist novelist are more neutral, but online there is less restraint.  I have read a little of God Delusion (Dawkins Book) and I have to say his language is pretty provocative most of the time.  If you want a truly neutral and open look at Jesus and his life, look at:</p>
<p>&#8220;The Case for Christ&#8221; &#8211; Lee Strobel</p>
<p>This shows true interview transcripts with most of Americas top experts on the New Testament.  Lee Strobel is a very well known Journalist (he revealed the Ford Pinto Case among others) who considered himself an Atheist.  Then his wife became a Christian.  It was the change he saw in his wife that prompted him to seek the truth about Jesus.</p>
<p>He read most of the main atheist books etc. in preparation to meet these people, he asked pretty hard questions.  He came away with this conclusion after months of interviews.  Jesus is historically correct, the gospels are very reliable&#8230;basically Jesus is who he says He is.  </p>
<p>This book is very thorougher and would stand up in a court of law (hence the name).  He looks at evidence in a very logical and straight forward way.  He doesn&#8217;t preach so much as present the evidence for you to make up your own mind.  </p>
<p>Christians are not (always) idiots (though there are some nutters out there&#8230;wow&#8230;), or deluded.  In fact, these days many Christians are forced to look at their faith more carefully than ever (because of many theories that come from Atheists, many very logical and well thought out).   I had to, I had many doubts.  But I looked the evidence and I conclude myself, YES Jesus IS LORD!  </p>
<p>Now, I also think many people who are Atheist tend to (ironically) taint their research by not considering the fact that maybe, just maybe, there could be a God.  If you start with the assumption that God doesn&#8217;t exist how can you ever believe?  No, that is impossible.  Some people don&#8217;t believe the holocaust took place too.  Take the Jesus Seminar for an example.  Here are a group of theologians who tried to test if what Jesus said was what he really said.  However, from the outset they concluded that miracles and the supernatural cannot exist.  This is not scientific is it?  I mean, if you try to research something and you don&#8217;t consider all the possibilities, how is that an academic approach?  It isn&#8217;t, it&#8217;s just speculation.</p>
<p>Now, here inlies the problem really.<br />
1. Atheists don&#8217;t want to believe God can exist (they discard it outright).<br />
2. Theists don&#8217;t want to believe God doesn&#8217;t exist. (the cannot disregard that perhaps he doesn&#8217;t exist either).</p>
<p>So I believe, it takes an agnostic approach to be truly fair to both arguments.  You need to approach the topic with an open mind.  You need to consider that facts and theories on both sides and decide for yourself what is true.</p>
<p>On this matter it is the heart that decides.  The heart cannot be measured and ultimately this is the Christians greatest weapon (so to speak).  How did Jesus say people would recognize his disciples?<br />
&#8220;By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.&#8221; &#8211; John 13:35</p>
<p>Christians, show love, love your enemies.  This is the way.  Logic and reason will not, ultimately, work.  It takes a step of Love. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+13" rel="nofollow">http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+13</a></p>
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		<title>By: Nick</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedpastor.com/archives/920/comment-page-1#comment-8233</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2007 15:54:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nakedpastor.com/archives/920#comment-8233</guid>
		<description>I want to begin by saying that I liked your post and agreed with many aspects of it, from a ideological standpoint. 

You say that you have a problem with language that denigrates another, the language of hate, etc. If you do not feel any hatred for anybody, then clearly, you would have no hateful things to speak. However, there is a case for honesty. Honesty and political correctness/Newspeak are at direct odds with another. Freedom is a necessary condition of democracy. If someone hates someone else and voices their view, they are completely free to do so. What people say is a symptom of what they feel.

Focusing on the cause of their feelings is something else entirely. In my opinion, efforts should focus on the root causes of problems, problems that would not otherwise be as obvious to spot if people are not free to voice their feelings.

If people are not free to speak, then the feelings come out in actions, usually actions that are discreet...an example might be white racism in the US today. Whites are not free to voice their opinions, while racism from other races is allowed. The result is that people are racists in secret and take action when it would not be noticed.

The basic idea here is to put everything on the table for everyone to see. Then we know what we are dealing with, in an honest and open way. I hope that this will not be construed as &#039;pro-hate&#039; or something like that, rather as an appeal to acceptance, realism, freedom, and honesty.

Cheers,
            Nick</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I want to begin by saying that I liked your post and agreed with many aspects of it, from a ideological standpoint. </p>
<p>You say that you have a problem with language that denigrates another, the language of hate, etc. If you do not feel any hatred for anybody, then clearly, you would have no hateful things to speak. However, there is a case for honesty. Honesty and political correctness/Newspeak are at direct odds with another. Freedom is a necessary condition of democracy. If someone hates someone else and voices their view, they are completely free to do so. What people say is a symptom of what they feel.</p>
<p>Focusing on the cause of their feelings is something else entirely. In my opinion, efforts should focus on the root causes of problems, problems that would not otherwise be as obvious to spot if people are not free to voice their feelings.</p>
<p>If people are not free to speak, then the feelings come out in actions, usually actions that are discreet&#8230;an example might be white racism in the US today. Whites are not free to voice their opinions, while racism from other races is allowed. The result is that people are racists in secret and take action when it would not be noticed.</p>
<p>The basic idea here is to put everything on the table for everyone to see. Then we know what we are dealing with, in an honest and open way. I hope that this will not be construed as &#8216;pro-hate&#8217; or something like that, rather as an appeal to acceptance, realism, freedom, and honesty.</p>
<p>Cheers,<br />
            Nick</p>
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		<title>By: Mimosa</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedpastor.com/archives/920/comment-page-1#comment-7570</link>
		<dc:creator>Mimosa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 May 2007 16:35:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nakedpastor.com/archives/920#comment-7570</guid>
		<description>I was just thinking the other day, that if someone mocks my faith that is sacred to me, it is/would be the same as mocking my husband! (or mother/daughter) etc. As it is a personal thing, and God to me is vea living person. So I would feel bad/sad, however way I&#039;d feel if it was my family member that was ridiculed. Stil lwhen it comes to God, I don&#039;t have to apologise for Him or defend Him - as He does ti Himself! But I can still feel it. And there is where Jesus&#039; teaching also come to life (about loving enemies). And is a challenge.

Anyway, I think whatever is sacred to someone, whatever it is, should be respected. To me, scorn and arrogance are never ok, but that is simply my value system. I happen to believe that we are all equal, believer or not, rich or poor, I believe we are all valuable and all deserve to be treated with the same respect, no matter what we think or believe. 

It is of course another thing to contest someone&#039;s thoughts if you happen to think differentily. And we all have freedom of opinion =) 

Also I loved this post! I actually didn&#039;t even think about the atheist side or think it to be &quot;against&quot; atheists - I think it was general and a good reminder to any of us, the whole humanity. Thanks. 

Mimo</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was just thinking the other day, that if someone mocks my faith that is sacred to me, it is/would be the same as mocking my husband! (or mother/daughter) etc. As it is a personal thing, and God to me is vea living person. So I would feel bad/sad, however way I&#8217;d feel if it was my family member that was ridiculed. Stil lwhen it comes to God, I don&#8217;t have to apologise for Him or defend Him &#8211; as He does ti Himself! But I can still feel it. And there is where Jesus&#8217; teaching also come to life (about loving enemies). And is a challenge.</p>
<p>Anyway, I think whatever is sacred to someone, whatever it is, should be respected. To me, scorn and arrogance are never ok, but that is simply my value system. I happen to believe that we are all equal, believer or not, rich or poor, I believe we are all valuable and all deserve to be treated with the same respect, no matter what we think or believe. </p>
<p>It is of course another thing to contest someone&#8217;s thoughts if you happen to think differentily. And we all have freedom of opinion =) </p>
<p>Also I loved this post! I actually didn&#8217;t even think about the atheist side or think it to be &#8220;against&#8221; atheists &#8211; I think it was general and a good reminder to any of us, the whole humanity. Thanks. </p>
<p>Mimo</p>
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		<title>By: Julia</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedpastor.com/archives/920/comment-page-1#comment-7050</link>
		<dc:creator>Julia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2007 21:17:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nakedpastor.com/archives/920#comment-7050</guid>
		<description>Terrence,
That would take a whole lot of faith. I have electric. :)
Really, what are you asking me? I&#039;m just a little dense....

heliobates,
I&#039;ve found it really difficult to reconcile faith and reason. I feel as though they are worlds apart. It could be possible. I&#039;ve read some beautifully reasoned arguments on the athiest side of thiings (yours included), but they don&#039;t seem to touch my experience of faith. (There&#039;s so much behind that last statement. I&#039;ve tried several times to put my thoughts into words, but it&#039;s just not happening tonight.) Thanks for your gracious comments regarding mine above. It&#039;s hard to decipher tone on these things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Terrence,<br />
That would take a whole lot of faith. I have electric. <img src='http://www.nakedpastor.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
Really, what are you asking me? I&#8217;m just a little dense&#8230;.</p>
<p>heliobates,<br />
I&#8217;ve found it really difficult to reconcile faith and reason. I feel as though they are worlds apart. It could be possible. I&#8217;ve read some beautifully reasoned arguments on the athiest side of thiings (yours included), but they don&#8217;t seem to touch my experience of faith. (There&#8217;s so much behind that last statement. I&#8217;ve tried several times to put my thoughts into words, but it&#8217;s just not happening tonight.) Thanks for your gracious comments regarding mine above. It&#8217;s hard to decipher tone on these things.</p>
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