Vision is incompatible with church community. The vision and mission statement talk is very provocative and tempting. As soon as anyone questions what our purpose is, it has the immediate and alluring aura of imagining, creating and shaping our future. It’s called futuring. And it is very sexy. If you are a business or an influence or lobby group or club or even a charity or anything else, you will need to have a vision and articulate a mission statement. But not a church. People, even believers, must have the freedom to assemble without being required to serve a vision created by the pastor or the leaders or even the collective. Otherwise their personal freedom out of necessity is sublimated. You have a choice: you either serve a vision or you serve people. The church can’t do both.
Serve Vision or People
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Proverbs 29:18? Thinking KJV, in this case….
The 80′s weren’t invented yet when that was written…
AMEN!
I am struggling to believe that you don’t have a vision for your church. You may not have a written one, but each time a decision has to be made about prioritising this or that there will be some underlying vision of how things should be that will determine the outcome.
For me even the “Naked Pastor” is a vision – it is saying that honesty and openness and vulnerability are more valuable than their opposite and in decision making I suspect that they trump their opposites.
It perhaps depends whether your vision determines how you want to “be” or what you want to “do”. If the latter then I agree with you – but for me a vision is the former.
Otherwise their personal freedom out of necessity is sublimated.
—-You mean like a marriage?
fishon
1) Let’s start with some definitions:
Vision – what your church/congregation would be if it was perfect.
Mission – the activities engaged and the path taken to achieve that vision.
2) Vision and Mission statements are to be re-visited/revised/updated every 2-5 years as the result of a congregational effort.
Alan: Okay. My vision is to have no vision. That’s my vision
dcsloan: yes. that’s exactly the stuff I don’t agree with when it comes to churches. thanks for laying it out.
For purposes of discussion…
Here is our Vision statement:
“God calls Central Christian Church to be a welcoming and open faith community where Christian love, action, and discipleship unite.”
The good side of this statement is that it does serve as an invitation to those who feel marginalized or excluded from other congregations. The bad side is that it serves as a warning, even a barrier, to those who are uncomfortable or opposed to open and affirming congregations.
I was re-reading Bonhoeffer this weekend and your post reminded me of a passage from Life Together…
“Not and Ideal but a Divine Reality”
“Innumerable times a whole Christian community has broken down because it has spring from a wish dream. The serious Christian, set down for the first time in a Christian community, is likely to bring with hum a very definite idea of what Christian life together should be and to try to realize it. But God’s grace speedily shatters such dreams. Just as God desires to lead us to a knowledge or genuine Christian fellowship, so surely must we be overwhelmed by a great disillusionment with others, with Christians in general, and if we are fortunate, with ourselves.
…Ever human wish dream that is injected into the Christian community is a hindrance to genuine community and must be banished for real community to survive. He who loves his dream of community more than Christian community itself becomes a destroyer of the latter, even though his personal intentions may be ever so honest and earnest and sacrificial.”
(Bonhoeffer, Life Together, 26 & 27)
I can not recommend enough, reading this slim volume….
I don’t get it. What if i have a vision to serve people?
hi Moriah: I’m specifically talking about the church having a vision. Not individuals.
I think you are right that vision/mission is incompatible . . . to a degree. Most of the models out there that are espoused are business models, and they don’t tend to work with the kind of church many of us(your readers) want to be a part of.
But I’m not sure about just ditching the idea of a vision that the Body has (I’m talking local church) . . . I mean, although I want sometimes to ditch it, I can’t find justification in Scripture.
I have to say, after lurking about your blog a bit, I was very surprised to read this post. I would more have expected to read about you being frustrated about unfulfilled vision. Granted, I would totally expect you to dislike using business models in church. I mean that in a positive way!
What’s your take on Prov 29.18? And Nehemiah?
It’s just I’ve never met a pastor/minister/church leader (whatever the verbage) that didn’t have a vision for the Body they were ministering to. It may not be written, but something drives how you spend for ministries, outreach, etc. Something drives how you teach/minister . . . I mean, I know you teach/espouse loving all people, not being racist, whatever. I would call that vision, even if you don’t formalize it in anyway.
I guess my point is, we all have individual vision. On this you agree. I just don’t think we can so completely lay that aside when we lead a group. I think it bleeds over . . .
God leaves no one out and its time for Christians to give up the country club mentality that eliminates people because they’re not acceptable.
I realize how tempting it is to agree with you. But I don’t. My family doesn’t have a vision. And we’re just fine. In fact, a vision would artificialize it. I think the same applies to the healthiest of church communities.
As far as “without a vision my people perish”… the word “vision” is literally translated like “a word from the Lord”, like prophecy. Big difference.
Kate,
NP is in denial. I have no doubt if I/you were a part of the church he pastors vision/mission would be identified easily. It is impossible to be a Christian pastor/preacher without some vision and mission. Know he may not have a long term vision/mission, but he has one. Hum, just thinking, maybe he does not teach his folks to put into practice biblical love, mercy, grace, helps, etc. If he doesn’t teach or preach any of then, then maybe I am wrong; he has no mission/vision and I should take him at his word, but then he won’t be a Christian pastor–at least as discribed in Eph. 4:11-12; you know, “prepare[ing] God’s people.”
fishon
You can serve a Person.
Is it resisting a vision and/or mission statement that then becomes a heavy burden or “form” of oppression that people then have to serve? It does seem impossible to not have SOME values or kind of community that one is fostering (or hoping to foster), even if that fostering isn’t primarily in terms of casting vision but letting things that don’t seem to fit atrophy (as opposed to rooting up weeds).
Is the desire perhaps to have a more organic community? One that evolves somewhat naturally as the members share life together and is messier rather than organized and neat?
Doesn’t the Vineyard church have a mission/vision? Was that not why the Toronto Airport Vineyard was asked to leave, because they did not fit in with the mission of the Vineyard?
I can see where a group of Christians will meet together and their only vision/mission is to do what they do…meet together. But I think once a church is under a recognised name, vineyard, presbyterian, wesleyan etc. it ends up adopting the vision/mission of the denomination. If not, they should leave or else be asked to.
I do feel families have visions and missions, in the sense that the parents usually dream, plan, and talk about their future. They will often make plans for the future and how they are going to go about securing that future. Is that not vision and mission?
When a pastoral vision is strictly adhered to, many people are left behind and gifts and graces sent to the church remain unrecognized. I remember attending a church when I had a fully functional ministry to the homeless. I was told that a homeless ministry didn’t fit with the churches vision, that I could expect no support of any kind from the church but if I wished to keep my membership I was expected to volunteer in one of the existing ministries in the church. To the other extreme, another church tried to recruit me because they wanted to add my ministry to their roster. On its face there’s nothing wrong with that but this particular pastor went after functioning ministries on a regular basis so that he had ready made outreaches that were not a fruit of his ministry. He sort of went too far.
Thanks NP, for the clarification on vision.
I agree. Vision in the wordly sense can be divisive, a source of pride, and a basis for saying who is in and who is out. It just doesn’t feel very loving to be on the receiving end of vision.
amen.
I agree David. More and more churches are taking the business models and catch phrases and latest crazes of the world systems and making them fit a kingdom that is not of this world.We’re not to conform to the patterns of this world…. keep on writing and challenging us ….
I only recently discovered Bonhoeffer’s writings. Having being drawn in when I read some of his stuff in relation to christology I’m felling a strong resonance with his thought
Thanks for bringing that particular thought of his Kimberly. It was gnawing at me because I’d drawn the connection as well buy I couldn’t remember who or where I’d seen it.
fishon: well, the first sign of being in denial is saying that you’re not. so there’s no use defending myself there. in terms of a vision: i don’t have one. the church doesn’t have one. don’t tell me i have something that i don’t. you don’t know. you are trying to fit me into something you believe in. i don’t fit. i make no apologies.
you are trying to fit me into something you believe in.
—–The Church I pastor does NOT have a man made vision or mission statement in written form. As a pastor, I do have a vision and mission to teach “make disciples–baptise–teach.” And since God also gave it to me to be a pastor/teacher, I do make an effort to fulfill Eph. 4:12.
Now I certainly have as pastor of the church I am at a passion for the folks to become full of grace, mercy, love, and servanthood to the poor. Ah, heck, call it what it is, vision for them. Of course——if you don’t have passion for the church you pastor to become full of grace, mercy, etc. because you reject having a vision as a pastor, well, ok.
fishon
I wouldn’t think it is that different. A vision that didn’t originate in God’s heart for you would be sort of pointless.
Maybe we are talking about two different things. I’m thinking of vision as something you recognize God is doing, something you know is in your DNA and you are made to do. I’m not talking about just coming up with something you think sounds great, and then forcing people into it.
But I’m curious (it’s my downfall) . . . if you have a prophecy over your church . . .would you make it a focus? A way to guide the church? If not, what would you do with a prophetic word for your church? I’m talking about a prophetic word about what God’s plan for your church is . . .
I’m not sure a vision artificializes anything . . . although, I can say I’ve felt the same way at times. For me, though, I’ve discovered I’m just reacting to the “push” for vision/mission statements . . . it gets to where having the written statement becomes paramount. Then, yes, it feels artificial. But the vision itself isn’t.
Perhaps. I don’t know him well enough and the trouble with threads like this is you can’t really tell what someone’s tone is.
I was just hoping that my tone was coming across right, actually. It’s easy to read offense and argument into someone else’s words, eh?
But anyway, I agree with the rest of your statement. I’m not sure it’s denial, maybe a reaction to the way vision and mission have been so emphasized lately. I’ll be honest, it turns me off too. Makes me feel like I’m trying to build a Fortune 500 or something.
I have to remind myself that vision and mission in and of themselves are so beautiful, gives such a rhythm to life.
But of course, when you start to regulate it, good and bad things happen. Good – you accomplish objectives. Bad – you lose your first love. And true love includes ebbs, flows, spontaneity and predictability. No “statement” can capture it all . . .
So true. Well said.
Well said, Kate. I was not alway a pastor. I worked in two different companies that had vision and mission statements. One was people oriented and did well, the other was married to the vision and mission and are doing poorly.
The church were I became a Christian at did NOT have a written vision and mission statement. When I started there they ran about 280, but they didn’t start out at 280. They started with 10 and grew– though no written vision or mission statement, but one that permeated their hearts. Now they are down to about 30 folks, and will completley die soon. Why? The leaders lost their heart–soul–spirit indwelling vision and sense of mission for God’s/Jesus/Holy Spirit mission.
In the end, it really does not matter if a church has a written or unwritten statement. It all goes to the matter of the heart/spirit. If NP and whatever leaders are in his church do not have an inner heart, spirit, mind, God led vision/mission for the church he pastors, they will cease to function as a disciple making, grace giving, love unconditional church representing Christ. They may continue for a time to be a social club who does good work, but as a church of Christ they will die. Sadly, just like my home church, and it is heartbreaking.
The truth is, I could care less whether the church David leads has a vision/mission statement. But I have read to long on this blog not to see clearly that he does have a vision for those he pastors. Why he thinks that a bad think and to continually deny it from time to time is going to be the death of his church some day–because he will start to believe what he so vigoriously denies, and then start to act upon it.
fishon
Thanks NP for saying what needs to be said more often. The ‘vision thing’ seems a cultural value which reflects the intrusion of the corporate and business culture into our church and parachurch agencies. The church survived and grew (which most people overlook), without a ‘vision statement’ from 33 AD approx to 1980 approx. The leaders of the churches in the past were more concerned with the character of their people and their calling to be God’s people and to do God’s ministry. The ‘vision thing’ marks a shift to a focus on results and measuring success. People and how Christ is formed in them, seems to get lost in this process. Ministers begin to see their role as the CEO of an organsiation rather than priest/preacher/pastor etc of God’s flock. Better go, the blood pressure is beginning to rise too much.
fishon,
you appear to have church all figured out and the answers to why churches grow or not – seems a bit too cut and dried to me. I think church growth/member retention/vitality is far more complicated than you suggest; your understanding seems to put all the onus on the leadership. How does one evaluate whether or not they have the right “inner spirit, heart, mind God led vision/mission for the church”?
“Now they are down to about 30 folks, and will completley die soon. Why? The leaders lost their heart–soul–spirit indwelling vision and sense of mission for God’s/Jesus/Holy Spirit mission.” – wow, that clears up the matter succinctly. I wonder what others in this church community would say and whether or not they would agree with your take. Sounds a bit like pin-the-tail-on-the-leaders to me.
It seems to me that the well-being and growth of your church rests squarely on your shoulders (and NPs for his) … or maybe I misunderstand you.
I love the idea of a church with no vision. It would be a bit scary if I had a vision for my husband or kids, so maybe a personal vision for a leader is suspect too. Reminds me of Peter Rollins saying that you need a leader who refuses to lead because if you have no leader someone will step up to the job and start leading.
I used to have a vision for my family, but it didn’t go too well. It was very frustrating cause my husband would not easily go along with my vision (agenda.) I’m sure he’s experienced the same frustration with me.
A vision involves adults getting other adults to cooperate and agree-always tough, even in a family, where you’re kinda stuck with each other. In a church, you can simply leave.
My agenda was not compatible with our personalities, so it led to frustration and depression. It was very freeing when I stopped trying to control another person or drive an agenda. What a load off my shoulders. A load I had placed there myself.
I’ve often imagined what it would be like to be a pastor. I’ve wondered if they are serious in their vision. I’m sure some are. But then I’ve also noticed that when I would get caught up in what the pastor was wanting us to do, I’d notice that most of the people didn’t get too excited about it-like it was a life-changing thing. They simply came to church
every Sunday morning year after year, regardless of what the preacher was supposedly so excited about. They seemed to take it all with a grain of salt. So hopefully the pastor realized this, and didn’t drive himself crazy in frustration.
Ofcourse from the Bible, I guess a group of Christians is supposed to be trying to get the lost saved and doing good works also. And being there for each other and growing more like Christ. So I guess they are supposed to be doing stuff.
I was just thinking about the early church. I guess they met in homes. But I don’t imagine them sitting and listening to a preacher every week. I imagine them talking to each other and encouraging each other, helping each other, eating together. I don’t imagine any kind of “service” that they had to sit through-with performances and lectures.
Ofcourse then again, people like the comfort of familiar rituals too. Just rambling.
kate:
It is difficult to catch the tone. But I appreciate your input here. I wasn’t offended by anything you said.
Your “eh” give you away? You Canadian?
Hee, hee. I didn’t realize I “said” it in typing, too. Nope, not Canadian, but pretty darn close. Alaska, with plenty of backpacking trips through Yukon and BC. And a road trip to the States via Canada that involved way too much weed for way too many months. Actually never ended up back in AK after that trip . . . live in TX now, and that via working for an archaeologist in Israel. Also involving too much weed.
No more weed, now, though. Had an encounter with Jesus after reading a James Michener novel. We had a good laugh and now I’m a nice Christian girl. I wear pastels. I sit like a lady. I pass harsh, quick judgment on scruffy looking fellas. I highlight troublesome Scripture passages with a Sharpie. I ignore my responsibilities to love because I’m just awaiting the Rapture.
Whew. That last bit started out true and then my ire over a local issue started lashing about.
kate: hilarious! thanks for that.
JP,
I wrote you a fairly detailed answer, but my computer disconnected and I lost it. I am not going to write it again.
I will say, you have misunderstood. I don’t have all the answers.
fishon
Having thought about it and having read the replies I realise I was not understanding what, I now think, the post was saying!
For the most part ‘churches’ are becoming more and more regulated, I suppose. Once you have a building, you have to get insurance, become registered with the government as a ‘charity’ etc. etc. As a result you then have to conform with ‘regulations’…health and safety, fire codes, to name two. I suppose under some regulation or other you end up having to have a ‘mission’ statement too.
Where I work we have a mission statement in each of the buildings..I work in an institution for the intellectually disabled and we have about 10 bungalows on the campus. I have often wondered the purpose of these as I have thought upon reading them..’but that’s what we do, why put it on paper, frame it on put it on the wall’.
I would think that once, in a church setting, you wrote down a mission statement, you are then limited to what the mission statement says. To go outside it you would then have to rewrite it!!
For me a vision is a very different thing. It is what you, as a group, discuss and plan what you would like the group to be in the future. Surely, David, you have stated here what you would like to see your church as, and probably more often, as what you would like it not to be? That does not mean you are imposing your vision of what a church on your church, but I would imagine that it would be very hard for your vision not to be influencing the way you pastor and relate to those who attend the church. Is there something wrong with that?
Ann B: To be honest, and I know I can be accused of denial, but I honestly don’t envision the church as I want it. I see the church as it is. I choose to love and serve what I see. I resist the temptation to imagine the church in any other way.
As a matter of interest, have you ever read, or come across a book called ‘The Church of my Dreams’ by John Beaumont? I read it years ago and have a feeling you might relate to a lot he wrote in it.
Ann B: No I haven’t heard of it. I should check it out. Thanks.
I’m trying to figure out whether my church has a vision/mission. If I have to ask, does that mean we don’t have one? Frank? Are you there???
Ah yes, Cindy reminds me of the week we sought the vision… we had paper and pens and even flip charts! It looked kinda odd in the living room where we hold service. I remember it being hard for us to concentrate, we kept getting off topic. In the end, we decided we would keep meeting (yes, that was under actual consideration) and there was some stuff we might do. We got a pub night out of it! (eventually) I think the rest (which included being more organized…) fell by the wayside pretty quick.
Sorry Frank. I know you really wanted us to get something out of that meeting…
I guess we don’t have much of a vision/mission. Actually, I think if we actually had to spell one out, we’d likely never agree.
But, seriously, I do know that my pastor (yes, that’s Frank), has a vision of what the church could/should/can be. Am I saying that right? (Frank?) It’s more like things that are on his heart. But that’s something I know by spending time with Frank. It’s not something the congregation aspires to or works actively towards. There are things that people in the church stand for or believe in and we meet and in meeting come to realize what God has for our own lives.
This might mean we have more of a vision/mission than NP would want.
Ann B said: “I can see where a group of Christians will meet together and their only vision/mission is to do what they do…meet together. But I think once a church is under a recognised name, vineyard, presbyterian, wesleyan etc. it ends up adopting the vision/mission of the denomination.”
This is actually a Vineyard church I’m talking about. I assume the Vineyard has a vision/mission. To be honest, this is the first I’ve ever thought of it. Now I’m curious, so I think I’ll go find out… I assume it has a website (I’ve never been on it). I guess what I’m trying to say is that adopting the denomination’s vision/mission is far from automatic. But the Vineyard tends to be pretty loosely organized for a denomination.
This sparked for me questions about whether my family has a vision. http://revdlesley.blogspot.com/2010/03/does-my-family-have-vision.html I decided it does:
I want it to be a place where we are all safe, we are all accepted for who we are, we are all heard. I hope it is a place where we can find healing and grow into the people we have been created to be.
I think I would like any church I am at to have a vision like this.
If you want to read some interesting stuff about why we think the way we do, I encourage you Hayward, to read ‘Church Beyond The Congregation and ‘Renogotiating The Church Contract’ by James Thwaites.
He explains why the church is bound due to Platonic thinking. In his second book, he talks about the politics, binding nature and religious slavery the VISION places upon both pastor and people in church culture.
A must read! It helped open up my eyes to the wayward church. :^(
Not to say that the vision is bad in itself, he explains what the Platonic thinking ingrained in our western minds does to the VISION: both pastor and congregation due to Platonic thinking exalt it to the point they are slaves to it – and need a new more realistic vision – until it is exalted again.