Tiggy said, on December 9th, 2009 at 6:17 pm
Yes, I was informed by one of the ‘leadership team’ at my church, that it showed the morality of God. At which point I almost threw up and had to leave the room. (I’m not speaking figuratively here.) I wasn’t able to talk about it any more.
Some of you may wonder why I am rude to the objectionable person mentioned above, (though I’m guessing most of you won’t). He has not presented himself on here as a human being, but as a spamming machine. It doesn’t matter that it’s random Bible verses – it’s still spamming. I don’t believe tolerance should be extended to spammers. As such, I object strongly to his continued presence and have largely ceased posting on any of David’s blogs.
———————-My, my, tiggy, all that and you forgot that you have a “DELETE” key.
Or you might do as I do———JUST IGNORE.
fishon
fishon posted “Your argument is with the writers of those scriptures.
By the way, what’s wrong with a little fear?”
Well I thought the basis of god was love. Apparently not. Fear based motivation is at the low bar of maturity. Even the scripture you quote states that its the beginning.
“The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom….”
Now if we are going to use scripture, there is another that states “There is NO fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. 1 John 4:18 (King James Version)”
Apparently your argument is also with those same writers.
That’s the problem with using the Bible as proof of concept. It debates with itself. If we combine those two texts literally we can conclude that perfect love casts out wisdom.
I know that some people interpret the term “fear of god” as respect. That’s even worse. LOL Perfect love casts out all respect.
fishon – “Oh contra. You do respond–so I must be hitting something.
If nothing work, then why oh why would you waste time on responing????”
fishon – “I think yawn indicates bored. Hum, but then you respond to one such as I. Interesting. ”
fishon – “Dang, bob, I would think you would give it up. You know, trying to reason with the unreasonable.”
All three comments above are basically the same, so I can answer them all at once.
I gave up trying to reason with fishon long ago. With regard to his faith, he avoids rational reasoning as if it were a venomous snake.
I respond to his absurd comments just in case there is someone who has read them that might be thinking he has made a good point. I realize, based on the responses, that there are few here who fall into that camp. For the most part, his replies are vague, insulting, juvenile, lack content, and do not warrant a thoughtful response, but just in case some passer by doesn’t see him for what he is, I will take the time and usually answer just about every burp he directs my way…and besides, it entertains me from time to time.
Richard Harty said, on December 10th, 2009 at 6:54 am
That’s the problem with using the Bible as proof of concept. It debates with itself.
————Richard, you try and mix prunes and grapes. In my saying you had “better be right,” there is no emphasis on love. Love has no part of my statement, so to try and use it to confuse the debate is a strawman. However, to say such a statement, I surely did have wisdom in mind. And when it comes to wisdom as spoken of in the Proverbs, will I will let them speak for themselves.
I loved my father and had a fear of him as a young boy [and he never yelled or hit me].
I loved my football coach, and had a fear of him.
My friend Charlie loved Admiral Nimitz, but when he was in his presence he had a certain fear.
Bob said: I respond to his absurd comments just in case there is someone who has read them that might be thinking he has made a good point. I realize, based on the responses, that there are few here who fall into that camp. For the most part, his replies are vague, insulting, juvenile, lack content, and do not warrant a thoughtful response, but just in case some passer by doesn’t see him for what he is, I will take the time and usually answer just about every burp he directs my way…and besides, it entertains me from time to time.
—————-Good try bob——–but only a fool debates a fool.
Only a fool responds to someone who does not “warrant a thoughtful response.” –Ah, so your responses are NOT THOUGHFUL RESPONSES,” [your words]to me. I like the admission.
I would think you could find better entertainment. You choice of entertainment speaks volumes of you————–it takes an “…insulting, juvenile, lack content…,” [your words] person to entertain you. What a life, bob, what a life you live having a need of “…insulting, juvenile, lack content…,” to entertain you from time to time.
I tell you what, bob. you can gloat and declare victory, why you can even declare me the villiage idiot, but you will do it on your dime——not mine. You go ahead and have your entertainment, but I will not waste my dime on you any more.
Type away bob, type away so as to please your need to receive “entertainment” from a insulting, juvenile, who lacks content. But you will be wasting key strokes. Because this villiage idiot will not play your tried game any longer.
Some will see the ridiculousness of your admission for responding to me for your above reasons stated. And to think you declare me one who argues from unreasonableness [insulting, juvenile, who lacks content] .
fishon
Oh, bob, don’t waste you time responding to this little ditty of mine, cause this is the last communication you get from me. Now if you feel the need to defend yourself to others as to why you used me, a insulting, juvenile, who lacks content, for entertainment purposes, by all means, feel free to type away.
fishon
SORRY ALICE!
Richard Harty said, on December 10th, 2009 at 1:09 pm
fishon posted “Love and fear——-there is no contratation.”
Apparently you have no text for that one. LOL
——————Laugh, but you didn’t address the love-fear connection.
I loved my father and had a fear of him as a young boy [and he never yelled
or hit me].
I loved my football coach, and had a fear of him.
My friend Charlie loved Admiral Nimitz, but when he was in his presence
he had a certain fear.
So I guess that since you ignored that, then you have never had that kind of
realionship: love and fear at the same time. ———— Wish you had said
that.
fishon
where you are coming from.
fishon posted “Laugh, but you didn’t address the love-fear connection.
I loved my father and had a fear of him as a young boy [and he never yelled
or hit me].”
I did address the love/fear connection in what I thought was something you believed in. I’ll repeat the text for your reference.
“There is NO fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. 1 John 4:18 (King James Version)”
Now it may be true that you had fear within some of your relationships, but that has nothing to do with claims about god. I would think the divine relationship would far exceed any human ones.
What you failed to address is your own source of authority which clearly states that “there is NO fear in love.” If you consider that an authority, I see no way around that.
Since we are talking about bridges, that concept would bridge a lot of gaps, but Christianity has the problem of a god who’s final solution is to burn everyone in hell forever who disagrees.
Ugh, the idea of loving someone we fear is totally abusive. I don’t know if the word ‘fear’ in the Bible is meant that way or not. I suspect it is. It’s fear of ‘the Name of the Father’ that perpetuates evil patriarchal systems.
Sorry I couldn’t reply to your post earlier, Fishon. I wasn’t well. Being rude to humans isn’t the same as being rude to a spamming machine. Mr ‘Love’ isn’t a real person; he’s an automated message.
tiggy,
Sorry you were not feeling well. I take it you are feeling somewhat better!
YOU: Tiggy said, on December 10th, 2009 at 6:35 pm
Ugh, the idea of loving someone we fear is totally abusive.
———-I guess different strokes for different folks.
No abuse by my father or step-father or coaches. So I don’t relate to your problem with loving someone we fear. Of course, you do know there are different kinds of fears, don’t you?
fishon
Yes, I should be better by tomorrow . At least I hope so, because I’m going to a party. This is the Christmas party of my friend’s bipolar group. As the only non-bipolar person going, I assume I’ve been invited to lend it some gravitas. They obviously haven’t seen me after three gin and tonics.
I wasn’t suggesting that your coach or fathers were abusive! I meant it leaves us open to being abused. It’s very hard to have the two coexist in one relationship without it lowering your self-esteem dramatically and that tends to lead to later self-abuse or vulnerability.
tiggy said: I wasn’t suggesting that your coach or fathers were abusive! I meant it leaves us open to being abused. It’s very hard to have the two coexist in one relationship without it lowering your self-esteem dramatically and that tends to lead to later self-abuse or vulnerability.
————–Tiggy, I honestly don’t know quite how to answer you. Your life experience and mine are soooo opposite. I wrote out a reply, but have deleted it.
If you want to disregard the scriptures I have given in a previous post, there is nothing I can say to you that will make a difference.
And I won’t even give you scripture about seeing you after three gin and tonics.
fishon
Tiggy said, on December 10th, 2009 at 8:28 pm
Hi David.
You know, at times when money gets short and bills get long, I sometimes ask myself the same question – ‘Am I sitting on the solution?’
———–Well tiggy, that solution landed my daughter onto skid-row, a nasty drug habit, and then prison.
fishon
David Hayward is an artist trapped in a pastor's body, stripping to the essential.
Tiggy said, on December 9th, 2009 at 6:17 pm
Yes, I was informed by one of the ‘leadership team’ at my church, that it showed the morality of God. At which point I almost threw up and had to leave the room. (I’m not speaking figuratively here.) I wasn’t able to talk about it any more.
Some of you may wonder why I am rude to the objectionable person mentioned above, (though I’m guessing most of you won’t). He has not presented himself on here as a human being, but as a spamming machine. It doesn’t matter that it’s random Bible verses – it’s still spamming. I don’t believe tolerance should be extended to spammers. As such, I object strongly to his continued presence and have largely ceased posting on any of David’s blogs.
———————-My, my, tiggy, all that and you forgot that you have a “DELETE” key.
Or you might do as I do———JUST IGNORE.
fishon
fishon posted “Your argument is with the writers of those scriptures.
By the way, what’s wrong with a little fear?”
Well I thought the basis of god was love. Apparently not. Fear based motivation is at the low bar of maturity. Even the scripture you quote states that its the beginning.
“The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom….”
Now if we are going to use scripture, there is another that states “There is NO fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. 1 John 4:18 (King James Version)”
Apparently your argument is also with those same writers.
That’s the problem with using the Bible as proof of concept. It debates with itself. If we combine those two texts literally we can conclude that perfect love casts out wisdom.
I know that some people interpret the term “fear of god” as respect. That’s even worse. LOL Perfect love casts out all respect.
fishon – “Oh contra. You do respond–so I must be hitting something.
If nothing work, then why oh why would you waste time on responing????”
fishon – “I think yawn indicates bored. Hum, but then you respond to one such as I. Interesting. ”
fishon – “Dang, bob, I would think you would give it up. You know, trying to reason with the unreasonable.”
All three comments above are basically the same, so I can answer them all at once.
I gave up trying to reason with fishon long ago. With regard to his faith, he avoids rational reasoning as if it were a venomous snake.
I respond to his absurd comments just in case there is someone who has read them that might be thinking he has made a good point. I realize, based on the responses, that there are few here who fall into that camp. For the most part, his replies are vague, insulting, juvenile, lack content, and do not warrant a thoughtful response, but just in case some passer by doesn’t see him for what he is, I will take the time and usually answer just about every burp he directs my way…and besides, it entertains me from time to time.
Richard Harty said, on December 10th, 2009 at 6:54 am
That’s the problem with using the Bible as proof of concept. It debates with itself.
————Richard, you try and mix prunes and grapes. In my saying you had “better be right,” there is no emphasis on love. Love has no part of my statement, so to try and use it to confuse the debate is a strawman. However, to say such a statement, I surely did have wisdom in mind. And when it comes to wisdom as spoken of in the Proverbs, will I will let them speak for themselves.
I loved my father and had a fear of him as a young boy [and he never yelled or hit me].
I loved my football coach, and had a fear of him.
My friend Charlie loved Admiral Nimitz, but when he was in his presence he had a certain fear.
Love and fear——-there is no contratation.
fishon
fishon posted “In my saying you had “better be right,” there is no emphasis on love. Love has no part of my statement,…”
No kidding.
fishon posted “Love and fear——-there is no contratation.”
Apparently you have no text for that one. LOL
Bob said: I respond to his absurd comments just in case there is someone who has read them that might be thinking he has made a good point. I realize, based on the responses, that there are few here who fall into that camp. For the most part, his replies are vague, insulting, juvenile, lack content, and do not warrant a thoughtful response, but just in case some passer by doesn’t see him for what he is, I will take the time and usually answer just about every burp he directs my way…and besides, it entertains me from time to time.
—————-Good try bob——–but only a fool debates a fool.
Only a fool responds to someone who does not “warrant a thoughtful response.” –Ah, so your responses are NOT THOUGHFUL RESPONSES,” [your words]to me. I like the admission.
I would think you could find better entertainment. You choice of entertainment speaks volumes of you————–it takes an “…insulting, juvenile, lack content…,” [your words] person to entertain you. What a life, bob, what a life you live having a need of “…insulting, juvenile, lack content…,” to entertain you from time to time.
I tell you what, bob. you can gloat and declare victory, why you can even declare me the villiage idiot, but you will do it on your dime——not mine. You go ahead and have your entertainment, but I will not waste my dime on you any more.
Type away bob, type away so as to please your need to receive “entertainment” from a insulting, juvenile, who lacks content. But you will be wasting key strokes. Because this villiage idiot will not play your tried game any longer.
Some will see the ridiculousness of your admission for responding to me for your above reasons stated. And to think you declare me one who argues from unreasonableness [insulting, juvenile, who lacks content] .
fishon
Oh, bob, don’t waste you time responding to this little ditty of mine, cause this is the last communication you get from me. Now if you feel the need to defend yourself to others as to why you used me, a insulting, juvenile, who lacks content, for entertainment purposes, by all means, feel free to type away.
fishon
SORRY ALICE!
?
Richard Harty said, on December 10th, 2009 at 1:09 pm
fishon posted “Love and fear——-there is no contratation.”
Apparently you have no text for that one. LOL
——————Laugh, but you didn’t address the love-fear connection.
I loved my father and had a fear of him as a young boy [and he never yelled
or hit me].
I loved my football coach, and had a fear of him.
My friend Charlie loved Admiral Nimitz, but when he was in his presence
he had a certain fear.
So I guess that since you ignored that, then you have never had that kind of
realionship: love and fear at the same time. ———— Wish you had said
that.
fishon
where you are coming from.
fishon posted “Laugh, but you didn’t address the love-fear connection.
I loved my father and had a fear of him as a young boy [and he never yelled
or hit me].”
I did address the love/fear connection in what I thought was something you believed in. I’ll repeat the text for your reference.
“There is NO fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. 1 John 4:18 (King James Version)”
Now it may be true that you had fear within some of your relationships, but that has nothing to do with claims about god. I would think the divine relationship would far exceed any human ones.
What you failed to address is your own source of authority which clearly states that “there is NO fear in love.” If you consider that an authority, I see no way around that.
Since we are talking about bridges, that concept would bridge a lot of gaps, but Christianity has the problem of a god who’s final solution is to burn everyone in hell forever who disagrees.
Ugh, the idea of loving someone we fear is totally abusive. I don’t know if the word ‘fear’ in the Bible is meant that way or not. I suspect it is. It’s fear of ‘the Name of the Father’ that perpetuates evil patriarchal systems.
Sorry I couldn’t reply to your post earlier, Fishon. I wasn’t well. Being rude to humans isn’t the same as being rude to a spamming machine. Mr ‘Love’ isn’t a real person; he’s an automated message.
hi tigg.
Hi David.
You know, at times when money gets short and bills get long, I sometimes ask myself the same question – ‘Am I sitting on the solution?’
now now girl!
tiggy,
Sorry you were not feeling well. I take it you are feeling somewhat better!
YOU: Tiggy said, on December 10th, 2009 at 6:35 pm
Ugh, the idea of loving someone we fear is totally abusive.
———-I guess different strokes for different folks.
No abuse by my father or step-father or coaches. So I don’t relate to your problem with loving someone we fear. Of course, you do know there are different kinds of fears, don’t you?
fishon
Yes, I should be better by tomorrow . At least I hope so, because I’m going to a party. This is the Christmas party of my friend’s bipolar group. As the only non-bipolar person going, I assume I’ve been invited to lend it some gravitas. They obviously haven’t seen me after three gin and tonics.
I wasn’t suggesting that your coach or fathers were abusive! I meant it leaves us open to being abused. It’s very hard to have the two coexist in one relationship without it lowering your self-esteem dramatically and that tends to lead to later self-abuse or vulnerability.
Pleas outline the different kinds of fear then.
tiggy said: I wasn’t suggesting that your coach or fathers were abusive! I meant it leaves us open to being abused. It’s very hard to have the two coexist in one relationship without it lowering your self-esteem dramatically and that tends to lead to later self-abuse or vulnerability.
————–Tiggy, I honestly don’t know quite how to answer you. Your life experience and mine are soooo opposite. I wrote out a reply, but have deleted it.
If you want to disregard the scriptures I have given in a previous post, there is nothing I can say to you that will make a difference.
And I won’t even give you scripture about seeing you after three gin and tonics.
fishon
Tiggy said, on December 10th, 2009 at 8:28 pm
Hi David.
You know, at times when money gets short and bills get long, I sometimes ask myself the same question – ‘Am I sitting on the solution?’
———–Well tiggy, that solution landed my daughter onto skid-row, a nasty drug habit, and then prison.
fishon