(a) We don’t have a single original autograph – so moot point.

(b) If we did have the originals and they differed qualitatively from what we have in the gospels and letters – what would that say about the development of this faith over the centuries?

(c) Lastly, scripture is spoken word not written word. I think this needs to be looked at further since every passage we have about Jesus is a recorded conversation that was written down by someone else (about those convo’s). Even the Torah functions in this manner. So what is truly inspired – God words (literally would mean spoken by God – which to me are the originals) or written words (inspired writers wrote as they felt led by God – and they more or less try rehash what Jesus said or God said)?

The reason I raise point (c) is because I think when God speaks there is a power attached to that (authority to move people or things). Yet this is not what we have in front of us. There is no recorded voice of God when he speaks from Sinai, to Moses, to Abraham, or to Jesus…or even when Jesus speaks to the disciples…or to Paul in Acts. Does the literal words of God (spoken) lose some muster in being written down?

“That, my friends is not the fault of an infallible word, but the fault of fallible hermeneutics” (Keith)

And yet, even with this fault before us, churches can make doctrine that is equal in authority to God Himself (since it based on God’s written word – which God never wrote). And this is the rub, is doctrine based on biblical precepts subject to human error?

“but someone who believes that the bible becomes the word of God when I interpret it cannot tell me I am wrong (even though I might be).” (Keith)

I am not sure anyone believes that about the word of God. The point I make is it’s meaning doesn’t become noticed until we live it out in reality – when words become experience.

“The bible is foundational to Christianity” (Keith)

I agree – I would even say without it there is nothing about this faith we can ascertain. I am not sure anyone is challenging that concept either.

“I believe it is our guide for faith and practice and we as Christians have an obligation to discover the truths that it contains, not to create truths from it.” (Keith)

But are we creating truths – and is your Christian tradition also guilty of this? You see the creeds pre-date anyone on this site by some 1500 years easy. The Reformation and the introduction of a whole new set of theological ideas also pre-dates us all by some 400 years. These circles created the model for created truth – dogma, doctrine, and the guidelines that shaped every single Christian church I could name. I believe a lot of questionable doctrinal ideas also slipped in – with very little scriptural open-ness on the questions – you accept the doctrines or you leave the church.

Now these were discovered, then debated, and now remain unquestionable. I think many of us think they need to re-open the case on many of these claims concerning scripture. I also believe in scripture and that what it teaches us is ‘true’…but I don’t believe orthodoxy is the only ‘truth’. I see the human flaw in interpretation.

“Truth is absolute, we are incomplete” (Keith)

Might be true – but since you give no propositional idea that is absolutely true – I cannot believe you. The sentence is fluff and vague, without exacts how can one ascertain anything about this ‘truth’ you speak of?

I would like to note this – about the biblical passages. Jesus likely studied under Pharisee’s in his day – which involved a lot of ‘pissing in the wind’ in order to get to the truth behind scriptures and what they mean (elaboration on the texts). Judaism still does a lot of this kind of rigorous study of texts – in debate.

Jesus himself in gospel passages that I cannot even count at this moment – argued and debated with people constantly about beliefs – whether that was in question format or conversation…but it always involved scripture and interpretation.

You might think not much is arrived at over a good heated discussion – but has never a good argument help bring clarity to your position or even help shape it?