cartoon: a treadmill is a treadmill

Posted in humour by nakedpastor on the November 17th, 2009

rat race

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52 Responses to 'cartoon: a treadmill is a treadmill'

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don bryant said, on November 17th, 2009 at 7:59 am

Priceless
Tiggy said, on November 17th, 2009 at 9:04 am

David, are you familiar with what is being termed, ‘New Monasticism’? It just means returning to spiritual disciplines that are part of monastic communities, but for those outside of them; such as, silent prayer, meditation, stillness etc. It seems to be taking off in the UK in some surprising places, like Pentecostal churches and even my own charismatic church which recently held a four day retreat of guided meditation on the Psalms. Our ‘Beloved Leader’ was even reading ‘The Cloud of Unknowing’, though not sure how far he got with it as he was drinking wine and nodding off at the time. Maybe I can suggest to him a more contemporary book on the apophatic way.
Mark VH said, on November 17th, 2009 at 10:07 am

It looks like it’s time to take up a collection for a bigger treadmill. Perhaps a barrel. Make checks payable to Brother Kitty.
steve martin said, on November 17th, 2009 at 10:19 am

Thanks be to God we are free in our church. No religious rat-wheels for us.

We do not HAVE TO DO ANYTHING to be in Christ.

But that we are in Christ, is the reason that we WANT TO DO THINGS.
Societyvs said, on November 17th, 2009 at 11:17 am

“We do not HAVE TO DO ANYTHING to be in Christ. But that we are in Christ, is the reason that we WANT TO DO THINGS” (Steve)

That can still become a ‘wheel’ too Steve. I do believe you are part of a larger institution called the church – correct? That’s a religious institution where you are only as free as they declare you to be free…or as long as you get along with the leadership there.
Jason said, on November 17th, 2009 at 11:57 am

That’s very funny – would one day love a chat and a coffee with you, are you over in the UK at all?

Here’s a thought, is it a treadmill if you enjoy doing it? perhaps someone else’s joy is another mans curse?

Blessings
Mark VH said, on November 17th, 2009 at 11:59 am

I have an idea. If we hook up a little generator to the wheel and occasionally replace the rats as they get worn out, that thing might eventually pay for itself. And then, hey, free wheel.
dissidens said, on November 17th, 2009 at 12:02 pm

I think this is a very eloquent cartoon. Whereas the historical church had artists expressing a helpful truth about the very real AND REASONABLE obligations of the religious life, you guys idiotically generalize everything with the simplistic treadmill:

small church = rats in a wheel
medium church = more rats in a wheel
large church = even more rats in a wheel

How boringly simplistic; no wonder you aren’t meeting people’s needs.
Tiggy said, on November 17th, 2009 at 12:05 pm

In the 1800s, little dogs used to be put on treadmills set into the walls of kitchens in order to turn the spit over the cooking fire. These little dogs were also taken to church to keep people’s feet warm, but the vicar would have to be careful what words he used, as any mention of ‘wheel’ or ‘fire’ would send all the dogs shooting out the door in fear of being put on the treadmill.

That has nothing to do with anything, but I thought it was interesting. Saw one of these doggie wheels in a house this year.
Mark VH said, on November 17th, 2009 at 12:12 pm

Anybody who has had a pet rodent knows that the wheel meets a need. To run around outside would meet that need better, but the wheel suffices.
Trey said, on November 17th, 2009 at 12:40 pm

I’m one of those dead rats outside the last wheel…
Tiggy said, on November 17th, 2009 at 12:52 pm

You won’t catch me on any kind of treadmill – I don’t have the energy or the inclination.
Jeremy Voss said, on November 17th, 2009 at 1:15 pm

I have been talking with some friends of mine about the ideas of big church vs little church. It seems to me that the larger the a church gets the more people are left out. Much like the rats lying dead outside the large church wheel. Involvement and commitment within a community can only exist when the community is of a manageable size.
Some larger churches are able to establish these communities when they do small groups, but more often than not, they fail to create actual communities and more likely create some kind of study groups. Not that dedicated study groups are bad, but my belief is that church should be about community. Unless these small groups have the intention of creating community first and study second then they will miss the point of why they are doing small groups.
Anyway it seems to come down to finding ways of getting smaller. Small church or small groups within a larger church. We must find ways to create this intimate community to love, encourage and strengthen each other. We must move past a church that we “attend” and seek a church that becomes our family, our community.
Existential Punk said, on November 17th, 2009 at 2:31 pm

THIS is the story of my life of living with chronic illness and not seeing much changing.
fishon said, on November 17th, 2009 at 4:00 pm

Societyvs said, on November 17th, 2009 at 11:17 am
That can still become a ‘wheel’ too Steve. I do believe you are part of a larger institution called the church – correct? That’s a religious institution where you are only as free as they declare you to be free…or as long as you get along with the leadership there.
—————Societyvs, I belong to the church ‘institution,’ and I am free as a bird in the wild. Sounds like you have been a prisoner of leadership and finally took flight—but some of us were free from the start and NEVER were taken prisoner of leadership.

Sounds like you have a great fear of leadership——-some of us have never had that fear.

I wonder why you don’t put the blame for those who you would call captives/victims on them? Why put the blame on leadership?

My freedom does NOT depend on anyone declaring me free, and I doubt Steve depends on anyone to declare that either.

I am beginning to believe you are the one not free–because you do protest a lot.
fishon
fishon said, on November 17th, 2009 at 4:02 pm

I may be one of those rats, but I choose when I will walk or run. And NO is a very easy word for me to use.
fishon
decloned said, on November 17th, 2009 at 5:08 pm

true freedom really does only exist within boundaries… it’s a good cartoon for illustrating almost any organization.

small church – few run and the wheel is hard to move… sometimes passion is all that keeps one taking the next step.

medium church – good size, wheel moves freely but you are still running the wheel

large church – well, unfortunately you can’t please everyone and it’s bound to happen… (which by the way happens with blogs too as David can surely attest) some go elsewhere, some die off, and some just can’t keep up while others run ahead.

If you don’t like the wheel, try some other cage, every method and every line of thinking has it’s limitations. The most open-minded way (imagery of a mouse hungry and lost) is often the one that ends up with a needy mouse and a prowling cat getting a full belly.
Laura said, on November 17th, 2009 at 5:56 pm

The only problem with the cartoon that I notice, is that all the mice are running in the same direction. That’s not very accurate really is it?
Tiggy said, on November 17th, 2009 at 5:58 pm

Yes, Mark is right, you should all run around and play instead and er…snuffle dustbins.

Is it just me, or does anyone else feel a sense of claustrophobia at the idea of a small community group being like your family.

Our church is in the process of changing over from ‘Discipleship Groups’ to ‘Community Groups’ ,but my one is based on age, whereas others are based on geography or even gender.
John T said, on November 17th, 2009 at 6:00 pm

It is absolutely accurate, Laura.
They are all going nowhere!
Societyvs said, on November 18th, 2009 at 1:18 pm

“Sounds like you have been a prisoner of leadership and finally took flight—but some of us were free from the start and NEVER were taken prisoner of leadership.” (fishon)

That’s likely true Fishon – then again I came to the church as a youth (17). I am not sure at what age you came to the church – I am guessing a bit older than that? For me, the experience inside of church walls is about leadership running the things the way they want to – and you either fall in line or fall out.

I towed the line for many years and enjoyed the respect and admiration I recieved – but when I seen others becoming prey to that same leadership and the double standards – I just joined the side that was being unduly persecuted for being young (or having lack of representation in the church family wise). To be honest, I had a very cordial relationship with leadership – still do – but I understand the dynamics behind a lot of it and I am not sure I like it.

“Sounds like you have a great fear of leadership——-some of us have never had that fear.” (Fishon)

Well I don’t live in fear and don’t plan on starting today. I think leadership within church walls, namely conservative ones, refuses to be honest about their weaknesses – their humanity in running something in which they may also be wrong. It’s just quite unheard of for church leadership to admit such things.

“I wonder why you don’t put the blame for those who you would call captives/victims on them? Why put the blame on leadership?” (Fishon)

I think because leadership plays a huge role in the church – they kind of direct the teachings, who will be on the board, who will teach youth group or sunday school, etc. In some ways the congregation is at the whims of what the leaders agenda is…being powerless in the decision making process. Some of that is neccesary I think – within the institution to safeguard the people (and their children). Leaders know this full well – they carry a bigger burden than the congregation – and they call the shots.

“I am beginning to believe you are the one not free–because you do protest a lot” (Fishon)

I can admit I want to see change in church institutions – does that make me less free? Perhaps.
bkw said, on November 19th, 2009 at 1:39 am

Steve said, “Thanks be to God we are free in our church. No religious rat-wheels for us.

We do not HAVE TO DO ANYTHING to be in Christ.

But that we are in Christ, is the reason that we WANT TO DO THINGS.”

When I began attending a Lutheran church I wasn’t able to receive communion until I had proper instruction. This occurred over the course of many months. Then I was able to receive communion for the first time. I would definitely call the weeks upon weeks of classes ‘doing something’ to be in Christ. I know Steve will find a way to disagree with that – probably something along the lines of it can be dangerous to receive communion if we don’t understand and agree with the idea of the real presence – but in the end I couldn’t get past how much we had to DO in this church to supposedly be FREE.
Jeremy Voss said, on November 19th, 2009 at 1:53 am

Societyvs said, on November 18th, 2009 at 1:18 pm
“I can admit I want to see change in church institutions – does that make me less free? Perhaps.”

Thank you for this statement. This takes a great bit of honesty and strength. It is often easy to throw your hands up in disgust and complain about the things that you don’t like or the things that have hurt you. I almost think it is the most natural response.

What is unnatural and what is most difficult, is to seek what can help a situation or church. I believe almost anyone in leadership (and I feel especially church leadership) will encounter a time of such strong resistance to change that it would be easier to just give up and do what they want to do on their own rather than to continue banging their heads up against an immovable wall. Especially when the immovable wall is in part the leadership!

It is difficult to be in a situation or church with the desire to change from the inside. It is not quick. It is not easy. It will often feel like you are making more sacrifices than anyone else, but I would beg you to ask this question: are the people you serve in this church worth helping? I think that more times than not you will answer, “Yes”. People may be stubborn, they may be backwards, they may be downright stupid at times, but they are people prone to mistakes…just like you and me. And they are usually worth the effort.

Rather than finding yourself part of what doesn’t work with church today, why not find a way to be a part of the solution. You can never be a part of the solution if you quit. You are never more free than when you choose to stay.
Tiggy said, on November 19th, 2009 at 9:48 am

BKW, it’s all about control.
nathan the alien said, on November 19th, 2009 at 10:12 am

I think even in ’small church’ rats fall (get thrown off) of the wheel, certainly in medium church.
steve martin said, on November 19th, 2009 at 10:13 am

BKW,

Sorry…you are wrong.

We have an atheist that regularly receives communion in our church.

If you come forward, you receive it.

We DO NOT HAVE TO DO ANYTHING.

Now, I realize that you are correct about some Lutheran churches (denominations).

But I was referring to the congregation that I am in.
Jeremy Voss said, on November 19th, 2009 at 10:49 am

nathan the alien said, on November 19th, 2009 at 10:12 am

“I think even in ’small church’ rats fall (get thrown off) of the wheel, certainly in medium church.”

Unfortunately you are right. Smaller churches are no less susceptible to the tragedy of “rats falling off the wheel.” It is most common the larger the church gets, but it is definitely not a problem unique to large churches.
Tiggy said, on November 19th, 2009 at 10:59 am

Now you seem to be seeing the wheel as a good thing! I would WANT to fall off the wheel – I wouldn’t want to be on it in the first place.

Anyway, they aren’t rats; they’re mice.
nathan the alien said, on November 19th, 2009 at 11:13 am

Yes the church treadmill is a ‘bad’ thing but those fallen rodents do not look like they are free of the wheel. They look more dead.
Societyvs said, on November 19th, 2009 at 1:34 pm

“We DO NOT HAVE TO DO ANYTHING” (Steve)

Sure you do – you have to choose your confession don’t you? You have to actually partake of communion and baptism – or are these non-mandatory now? You have to believe God exists – correct? You have to believe a lot of things actually – including in Jesus and his redemptive work…you also have to believe you are attributed his righteousness with God.

Nothing would be nothing Steve – like not attending church and living your life with no regards to the church one iota…which would make a lot of people ’saved’ IMO.
bkw said, on November 19th, 2009 at 1:56 pm

I stand corrected about communion then – another confusing point about Lutherans – so many versions. (Which one is right?) But you still do believe that you must be baptized to be saved and that you must receive communion regularly to receive the gift of faith. I believe that’s pretty universal across the Lutheran brand.
Tiggy said, on November 19th, 2009 at 2:05 pm

Wow, I knew nothing about Lutherans. I believe we have one Lutheran church in London that’s really for people from Sweden. Howcome if that’s what Luther taught, the Anglican church dropped it? I didn’t know any Protestant groups were that sacramental.
bkw said, on November 19th, 2009 at 2:36 pm

Yes, Lutherans are very sacramental. The real Lutheran response to the baptism question is, “You don’t have to be baptized to be saved. But you can be baptized and be saved.” I think they don’t like to fully admit that there is a work to be done so they put it that way…Either way, it’s all good – just admit that there is a physical action by a human being done even if you believe that the real ‘work’ is being accomplished by God.
steve martin said, on November 19th, 2009 at 9:53 pm

Societyvs,

No. We don’t choose our confession. Christ gives it to us. He gives us faith.

No one chooses to become a Christian (per Jesus Himself).

BKW,

We baptize and are baptized because Christ commanded it. We can be saved apart from baptism, but that is Christ’s business.

Christ is the One who does the actual baptism (we believe) so it is not our work, but His.

We regularly receive the Lord’s Supper in the same way.He commanded that we do it, but He is the One giving of Himself in it.

Since the Spirit draws us, and gives us faith, and keeps us in faith, I won’t admit that anything we do makes anything happen. It is all Him.

This sermon, by my pastor, explains it all better than I can:

http://lightofthemaster.com/Sermons/Entries/2008/3/4__The_Holy_Spirit.html
Tiggy said, on November 19th, 2009 at 9:58 pm

That’s interesting; I was always taught in churches that God leaves us free to choose. Lutheranism doesn’t believe in free will then? Or is it just in this matter?
fishon said, on November 19th, 2009 at 10:20 pm

Societyvs said, on November 18th, 2009 at 1:18 pm
“Sounds like you have been a prisoner of leadership and finally took flight—but some of us were free from the start and NEVER were taken prisoner of leadership.” (fishon)

That’s likely true Fishon – then again I came to the church as a youth (17). I am not sure at what age you came to the church – I am guessing a bit older than that? For me, the experience inside of church walls is about leadership running the things the way they want to – and you either fall in line or fall out.
————–I was 33, Societyvs.
————–I too have seen leadership abuse and myself have been abused. Two things came out of that. I didn’t allow the abuse to make me cynical and bitter, and I made the decision that if I was ever to become a leader, I would not make the same mistakes/sin that I witnesses and was a party to.

“I wonder why you don’t put the blame for those who you would call captives/victims on them? Why put the blame on leadership?” (Fishon)
YOU: I think because leadership plays a huge role in the church – they kind of direct the teachings, who will be on the board, who will teach youth group or sunday school, etc. In some ways the congregation is at the whims of what the leaders agenda is…being powerless in the decision making process.
———–Oh, no doubt leadership does play a huge role in church. And no doubt there is abuse, but I still can not understand why so many [on this blog site] continually play the victim and never let it go and move on——not out. I know, I know, several have tried to point out their reasons, but there is a time to move on, and many don’t want to move on. They like to continue the victim.

“I am beginning to believe you are the one not free–because you do protest a lot” (Fishon)
YOU:I can admit I want to see change in church institutions – does that make me less free? Perhaps.
——————Oh no. Needed change is a good thing. How the change comes about is a big issue———and no, wanting to see change does not make you less free.
fishon
steve martin said, on November 19th, 2009 at 10:35 pm

Tiggy,

Right.

Lutherans believe in ‘free will’, but not with respect to choosing God.

Our natural state is to reject God. But God calls and chooses us and makes us His own, by His election.
steve martin said, on November 19th, 2009 at 10:35 pm

Jerry,

Hey there!
Tiggy said, on November 19th, 2009 at 11:04 pm

Yeah, you been away fishing again, Fishy?

So…..are the elect predestined? Is there any point, from a Lutheran view, of evangelism?
nakedpastor said, on November 19th, 2009 at 11:43 pm

fishon: come on man!! you’re smarter than that. you’re encouraging people who’ve been abused to suck it up, get used to their abuser, forgive them, and move on… only to suffer abuse all over again. the church, need you be reminded?, is rampant with abuse. how do people who’ve suffered at the hands of the church “move on” within the church? answer that.
Tiggy said, on November 20th, 2009 at 12:43 am

Some of us were abused as children or teenagers. It makes you fearful. We do need to wise-up though so it doesn’t happen again. But that’s difficult because it means resisting power structures and being abused tends to make you more vulnerable to further abuse. I always want to find someone I can trust so as to make up for the abuse, so I tend to trust too much despite being fearful. That produces a lot of conflict and reinforces vulnerability. It’s quite hard for me to feel safe in a church, though there are Christians and groups of Christians that I do feel safe with. I try to be courageous and I’m actually very positive about my present church and about the other churches I’ve been to in Bath.
steve martin said, on November 20th, 2009 at 12:45 am

No problen with us and election.

People come to faith by hearing the Word.

They can’t hear it if they don’t have a preacher.

And Jesus lso commanded that we go to all nations (all peoples), baptizing and teaching…about Him.

He will handle the rest.

G’nite!
fishon said, on November 20th, 2009 at 12:56 am

tiggy,
No, Elk hunting this time. Had a great time, and received a bonus—saw Elk, but did not take one. Saw some beautiful Bucks [Male Deer], a few coyotes, and lots of birds. Did a good bit of canyon walking and lived to go another day. Saw some of God’s great, beautiful creation.
fishon
fishon said, on November 20th, 2009 at 1:01 am

Steve,
Hope things are going well for you. Man, I have it made. Fishing and hunting in late fall, and my congregation encourages me to go. Hey, I am taking the congregation through Proverbs. And in my reading I came upon a scripture that I have read many times before, but is giving me pause, Proverbs 9:7.
MAKE IT A GREAT TOMORROW.
jerry [fishon]
Tiggy said, on November 20th, 2009 at 1:32 am

Heehee, ‘Saw some of God’s great, beautiful creation’ and shot it. Why would you shoot an elk anyway? Do people eat elk?

‘my congregation encourages me to go.’ Hmm, I’d be a bit suspicious about that if I were you!
fishon said, on November 20th, 2009 at 1:51 am

nakedpastor said, on November 19th, 2009 at 11:43 pm
fishon: come on man!! you’re smarter than that. you’re encouraging people who’ve been abused to suck it up, get used to their abuser, forgive them, and move on… only to suffer abuse all over again. the church, need you be reminded?, is rampant with abuse. how do people who’ve suffered at the hands of the church “move on” within the church? answer that.
——————David, there are victims and there ARE victims. In my dealings and limited experience—just like most other people, because we have a small circle of people in our lives, I find that most [I did not say all] are not true victims of abuse. They are people who didn’t like a particular decision made by leadership, they didn’t get they way, old Mrs. W, said something grumpy to them; maybe they had a great idea for they gave the Christian Ed. leader, and the leader decided not to go along with it; Heck, I saw a lady leave because she wanted Hymnals with different kind of music notes, and it was decided that they wouldn’t get them. She claimed that she was abused. No way, she was mad cause she didn’t get her way, and on and on it goes. Those folks need to suck it up.

And I DO NOT believe THE Church is “rampant with abuse.” A particular church may be rampant with abuse, but you make a big tent statement that can not be substantiated.

YOU:how do people who’ve suffered at the hands of the church “move on” within the church? answer that.
————-Why David, I will answer that, though you seem at times to be hesitant to answer some of my questions.

Group one: Play the victim cause they don’t get things their way, or maybe they were insulted. How about everything, every decision made by leaders are not about them. Get over it. If insulted, I do thing the Bible says forgive. I am talking victim players, not real victims.

Group two: Real victims of abuse. Of course, what the abuse is will have a lot to do with what they do about it. Some will need to leave the church——some will need to stay and try and change things [doesn't happen over nite]——All will have to make the decision to forgive——–All will need to MAKE the decision to not allow abusers to destroy their walk with Christ [of course some don't, and in the end have allowed other people to control their decisions]. ——–I had a friend who had a preach steal his boat. He was a victim. And so he quit church, all church, any church because of one man, a bad man. Now he has nothing to do with the Lord. Still the victim. What a shame that he based his walk with God on a man—–and I have read many in this blog basically pour out the same story———-God brought me to himself, but man drove me away. Still playing victim, and in cases real victims, but when do they get over it, David? When do they do as the Lord did, Stephen did, and thousands of martyrs : “Father forgive them for they know not what they do”? When do they do that, David?

David, I take each case totally differently from any other case; no two are alike. But ALL need to forgive, and at some point everyone needs to move on an not let the failures and sins of leaders destroy their walk with God, their joy in the Lord, their realionship with people, and so on. I do believe a young man named David was abused by a man named King Saul——There is much to be learned from David and how he dealt with being abused.

Ah, another thing we don’t see eye to eye on.
fishon
fishon said, on November 20th, 2009 at 1:57 am

Tiggy said, on November 20th, 2009 at 1:32 am
Heehee, ‘Saw some of God’s great, beautiful creation’ and shot it. Why would you shoot an elk anyway? Do people eat elk?
————Tiggy, didn’t you read my post about elk hunting???? QUOTE: saw Elk, but did not take one.

Eat them? Oh absolutely. Often times better than beef. Well of course that is a personal opinion. Oh, Tiggy, had my scope on a few Elk that were mine for the taking: NEVER pulled the trigger yet. The next one–maybe yes, maybe no.

‘my congregation encourages me to go.’ Hmm, I’d be a bit suspicious about that if I were you!
——————Dang, I wish you hadn’t put that way of thinking in my brain. I will not sleep easy tonight.
fishon
Tiggy said, on November 20th, 2009 at 2:51 am

Yes, I did see that y ou hadn’t shot one. It just reminded me of that spoof of army recruitment ads, ‘See the world, meet interesting people – and shoot them’.

Ha, I was only kidding – I’m sure they just want you to have a nice break.

Elk are so beautiful and magnificent, I don’t think I could shoot one.
Societyvs said, on November 20th, 2009 at 11:57 am

“fishon: come on man!! you’re smarter than that. you’re encouraging people who’ve been abused to suck it up, get used to their abuser, forgive them, and move on… only to suffer abuse all over again. the church, need you be reminded?, is rampant with abuse. how do people who’ve suffered at the hands of the church “move on” within the church? answer that” (NP)

I think fishon’s response to me was candid and made sense (weird huh).

I think he is seeking the reconciliation of the church with it’s wounded – whom the church may have wounded…nonetheless forgiveness is the neccesary route to go (hate will get us nowhere). I also think change needs to occur so these types of things do not happen to people in churches – that leadership is accountable to it’s people whom it is charged with…at least this is a step I would like to see (more democratic steps).

I know a lot of people that have been wounded by their experience in church – including myself to a minor degree – and none of us attend church – yet all still have some aspect of faith in God (just don’t know how to direct that). I write a blog…others banter about in casual conversations still. I saw there was a need for a church reconciliation process years ago (maybe 4 or 5 years ago) and that leadership needed to start a process where this could be possible.

I mean it in this sense, even when the person in the parable lost 1 sheep of his 100 – he spent the time to find that sheep. I cannot say the same for most church leadership I have met.
fishon said, on November 20th, 2009 at 2:50 pm

societyvs,
Just wrote a reply to you, and probably the first one that had no debate, but total agreement–and I hit a wrong key, wouldn’t you know it. I will make an attempt to reply, but no promise.
fishon
Societyvs said, on November 20th, 2009 at 5:13 pm

Fishon – it’s irony (lol)
nonfictions said, on November 26th, 2009 at 2:44 am

Is that a treadmill or a fan? (Or a hamster’s wheel?)

nakedpastor

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cartoon: a treadmill is a treadmill

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