I had a meeting with one of our elders this morning over coffee. We were talking about the perplexing dilemma our church community presents. Well, let me just quote what she said:
We want to do church in a way that is self-sustaining but doesn’t require us to pressure people to keep it going. The church is to serve people. We don’t want it so that the people are serving the system.
What necessitated this kind of discussion is the fact that our offerings are down, so much so that I had to take a pay-cut. We need to figure out other ways to decrease expenses and increase income. That’s if we want to continue to survive in the same way. Of course, there are ways to decrease expenses. We could continue decreasing my pay. We could rent out more space at the church building. We could sell more land. We could even sell the building if we had to, even though we owe nothing on it and we like the convenience a building affords. And so on.
How do we continue to do something that requires some money without pressuring people for money? We could, like I said, reduce everything down so that we require no money to function at all, but we enjoy the convenience of having our building, as plain as it is. Who knows what it will come to? But that’s part of it too: living freely, even as a community, means living with uncertainty.
So this is the dilemma. It is the same old problem: how to be a community of free people. How does freedom and commitment co-exist?
This photo was taken this evening from my front door while I was typing this post. Magical!
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David Hayward is an artist trapped in a pastor's body, stripping to the essential.
Can’t the church still be free if you tell them what is needed in order for it to keep functioning a certain way? Keeping the church free may not mean you can’t ask. Freedom may mean you can ask, and they all really have the option of saying yes or no.
emily: that is a delicate matter, of course. however, we do, since we consider ourselves a community, let people understand what the “needs” are. we also, of course, talk about generosity. however, giving and tithing and generosity has been so abused by the church, it has become a most difficult issue.
And if they do say no to giving the money, then they are essentially saying no to what it pays for too. Freedom doesn’t mean causes don’t have their natural consequences.
emily: ya, but, that’s where the problems start. once we connect money to service, then it’s business. which i reject. some give lots, some give little, some given none. but everyone receives everything offered.
The view out your front door is magnificent!
Freedom and commitment…the freedom to make a commitment is huge…to believe in something to the point that you are given to it 100% is an exercise in freedom. We just tend to look at any sort of a commitment as confining. Perhaps its time for a series of membership meetings to totally erase the them/us barrier. You know, the one that says they put church on and we come or the reverse. Yes, there needs to be definitive rolls…you are the designated leader, facilitator, director, or whatever you wish to be called, but the rest of them need to be heard. How do you, all of you, define community? What do you want to be to one another? What do you want from one another? And no, I’m not suggesting a goal setting session or putting a hard fast agenda in place. What does community look like? To you? To others involved? How do you as a community want to be seen in the larger community?How can you be most effective as a loving presence? And as a matter of course, the finances must be talked about…with everyone. When the us/them barrier is gone, people will step up to the plate because it will now become our church…our community…rather than David’s church or the Vineyard church. If you haven’t been already, its time to be brutally honest with all of them concerning the finances, not as in the usual if you don’t step up your giving we’ll have to close the doors thing, but as in here’s where we are, does anyone have any creative ideas thing. To rent out space is always a good idea as long as it doesn’t conflict with your usage of the building. At least here, in the city, its always difficult to rent space for a seminar etc. unless you want to pay hotel rates. But there are solutions and I just feel that the entire community coming together to solve the problem should work. Just know that the Kingdom of God is being made manifest in your life…in every area of it.
thanks preacherlady. it is gorgeous. wise words.
What sort of place is your church building in? City, town, countryside?
That whole discussion was going on while I was writing my comment. Yes, giving and tithing have been exploited for sure…however, it still takes money to run a church and being a giver is also part of being a spiritually whole person. Can you, as leader, totally believe that in the vision, is the provision? Can you trust that even though the money doesn’t come through the usual channels, it will come? Your belief, as leader, gets passed down into the flock by osmosis or whatever. If what you are doing is what you are supposed to be doing, it wont fall apart and it will be provided for. You may be able to set the example by the church, out of its need, not its abundance, giving elsewhere. We forget that we are supposed to be the dispensers of the loaves and fishes, and if our desires are to give to others, our needs will be taken care of.
We have money in our group, but we just lost our space. It put us in an interesting dilemma as well. Anytime something that you are used to relying on goes out the window, you take a long, hard look at what is really important. You ask, “What would we be unhealthy without, what is vital to our identity?” We decided to join with another church group for our Sunday night meetings, at least for now. You can’t tell the Vineyard folks from the others. Kinda nice, actually, to be a part of something outside our usual speed and control. And we never would have done it had we not lost our space.
On another note, in response to the quote from the elder, here are a few comments: I don’t think we want to “do church” as much as we “are the church.” Self-sustaining is not really a goal of ours: Jesus builds HIS church. If he is not sustaining us with his spirit, nothing is going to last. And perhaps the church is not here to serve the people as much as we are here to respond to the Lover of our souls and offer our lives to him.
Just some thoughts really late at night. You can feel free to disagree. Love ya, David.
hey matte. interesting on you guys!! about being the church and doing church… agreed… we are aware that we are the church… when i say how do we do church, and how does the church serve the people… in these cases i am talking about the institution of church…
Brother,maybe, and I say this from far away[by the way, if you want to exchange front door views,Brooklyn tenements are not quite as soothing}perhaps,just maybe, living on that edge is what we as professed followers of Jesus, are supposed to do.Now, I am not saying it’s easy or painless[not that following this Way is either},it does seem that we are, if not meant ,then encouraged to be poor.Perhaps I am wrong,I often am.I have this debate with my parish priest each week[he REALLY looks forward to seeing me}.Sigh.It is so damn hard sometimes,eh?
“How does freedom and commitment co-exist?”
Wow, David. We actually find ourselves in the dilemma of this question all through life, don’t we? College, job, marriage, children– all desirable situations that require the loss of freedoms. And, much of that loss of freedom has to do with money. I guess it’s reasonable for the church to struggle with the dilemma as well.
Oh, I don’t have any answers. I think about it all the time as well. Right now, my employment in the church is a loss of freedom that I’m struggling to reconcile with. I’m not making much progress, though.
I just want to comment on the picture outside your front door-Gorgeous. I, too, live in the country and have views like this often. Never gets old to see the sun set outside my front door.
That’s been our big dilemma. Do we go with the stable church where a Sunday School group has no qualms about calling themselves the “Happy Heretics” but is afraid to assign themselves the “Reconciling” label for fear of excluding people (which must mean – excluding money!). Or do we go with a church that has gone through the struggle of adopting the Reconciling label for the entire community, but struggles financially? (This is the only reconciling community that even exists in Austin). We have little money to give, but are willing to give our time. Yet, we feel guilty joining a church that is clearly in need of money because we are struggling ourselves. But then I read your woes and think maybe money is the least of the problems. (My husband and I are a bit at odds over this decision.)
I also covet your view!
Gosh, does one have to have labels? I haven’t even heard of the ‘Reconciling label’, like a lot of the jargon they seem to have in North America.
David, surely what you see as a desire for freedom is really a desire to be authentic?
No Tiggy,
“One” need not have labels. But labels can be quite powerful. The reconciling label is the label used in the United Methodist Church that recognizes that “all” are welcome – including homosexuals, bi-sexuals and transgendered folks. It takes a lot of courage to opt for the label in the Bible Belt because it very often ostracizes the older community which is typically is among the greatest source of income. If you are the United Church of Christ – such labels are non-important since the entire denomination is already inclusive. But the vast majority of mainstream churches are not.
If you (corporately or maybe just you) were to let the whole thing die (property and heirarchy and franchise), would Jesus (you know, the theoretical Head of the church) be fond enough of the gathering to bring it back from the dead (in whatever form He sees fit)? It’s a real question.
mark vh: i hear you. like jesus though: is it our time yet?
Now there’s a question.
If you are truly a community, do you not share difficulties as well as successes?
Let the situation be known. If people value what you have, they will remedy the situation.
“Preacherlady” mentioned the loaves and fishes. Have you noticed that Jesus didn’t create them out of thin air? Neither did He create wine at the wedding at Cana out of nothing. In both cases, he took existing materials, neither of which were free. Isn’t that something akin to the needs of the church to effect transformation? To begin with, it needs something physical, and somebody has to accept the responsibility to pay the bill. luke 12:48, “Unto whomsoever much is given , of him shall be much required.” Just because there have been abuses does not mean we should throw the baby out with the bathwater.
John
Name that job (tongue firmly in cheek, people): A person graduates from years of specialized training in school and has now gotta eat. He chooses a gig which needs a certain number of people to donate(!) to feed/clothe/house him (in exchange for meeting a strange variety of spoken and unspoken expectations). But he then becomes sensitive to the way that business has to be done done in his chosen field, and becomes averse to the very techniques that would make a living wage. Uh, oh. I’ve been told by a few of them that it’s the worst job in the world. What’s the gig? No, it’s not panhandling, silly people. There is no degree for that, and some of them might consider doing something else for food (that’s what their cardboard signs say, anyway). I kid. Kind of. It’s an impossible situation. Something has to give way. The convictions? The gig? The expectations of others? That’s what keeps me coming back. I think there is a corner coming. There are two kinds of corners: inside corners where you get crunched, and outside corners at which you can make a turn. I’m holding my breath for the time and direction of the outside corner on this story.
Talk about money to the people that want to know about money.