Steve,
I am trying to remember, didn’t Jesus’ group have a treasurer? Hehehe.
That could possible bring about interesting discussions from two very different angles.
Oh, I hate the hucksters.
However, giving money was not an issue Jesus shyed away from. It certainly wasn’t taboo.
How ’bout this variation: “Please send us your money so that we may remain rich enough to continue to rob you.” That, I think, is true of both the banks and many churches (in their own ways).
The giant bolt on the door looks like a pound sign! Churches making money happens very rarely in the UK – I guess we don’t have the money or aren’t as enthusiastic or impressionable. I personally wouldn’t feel very comfortable about giving a tenth of my income to a church.
If money was the only thing holding the church back from doing the work of the gospel, then we would see a great deal more being done by the mega-churches. The effectiveness of our churches has diminished because of the woundedness of the hearts and the dryness of the leaders in the church. Your heart goes where your money goes. If your money is going nowhere, then your heart is standing still.
“Ministers say that they teach charity. This is natural. They live on alms. All beggars teach that others should give.”
–Robert G. Ingersoll
No offence David…you know I love you.
I just think that if churches adopted a new model, say, ministers that had other professions, rather than being completely dependant on the gifts from other church members, and if the members met in homes, rather than in their &%$ @$#% giant, million dollar tax free buildings, then the church would not “need” any money.
Just seems to me, if today’s church is modeled after the New Testament church, then who ever invented the New Testament church…screwed up.
The ones that bother me the most are the ones who say that their ability to feed children, buy a building etc. depends on my giving. I don’t mind an opportunity to be part of a project, or for a ministry letter to have a place attatched to fill out if you wish to support the work…what I do mind is monthly solicitations which are just that…no teaching, no newsletter, no magazine…just the “…your continual support allows us to…” For four years, I didn’t take up an offering…there was just a basket on the refreshment table…and there was always plenty and we were able to assist many people. In the vision there is the provision…and when things are right, the finances show up.
preacherlady,
We still don’t pass the plate. Just a box in the back for anyone who wants to give.
I have only preached 2 times in 11 yrs. about giving–tithes–offerings. Not saying that is good or bad.
Now I have asked maybe 3–4 times for special offerings for 9-11——–Katrina—-tsunami—-???
“Ministers say that they teach charity. This is natural. They live on alms. All beggars teach that others should give.”
–Robert G. Ingersoll
____________”At the height of Ingersoll’s fame, audiences would pay $1 or more to hear him speak, a giant sum for his day.” —-Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
—————————Hmmmmm, sounds like he received alms. Paid to hear him speak:hehhe.
fishon
In my own fellowship I don’t think I ever taught about giving. If there was something big going on i.e. we were picking up someones heating bill for the winter, and things like Katrina, I’d just mention that we were going to participate and the gang would step up to the plate. I have done a series on giving in someone else’s church. Giving was down, the attitude from the pastoral staff and the board about small gifts was horrendous, and the congregation was all about “I want, I want, I want.” There needed to be some correction. Two wonderful books about supply are by two off the beaten path authors…Spiritual Economics by Eric Butterworth (I think he’s Unity) and Invisible Supply by Joel Goldsmith…he was a 20th century Christian mystic. Invisible Supply has to be my favorite, and it deals with the complete and total trust in God for supply. Great stuff!
—————————Hmmmmm, sounds like he received alms. Paid to hear him speak:hehhe.
Sounds like he was a paid speaker:hehhe.
Probably a difference between telling people God requires them to give, and telling them your fee for speaking.
Personally, the last thing I want to do is sit every week and pay to listen to one man give his opinion on how I should live. I can figure that out for myself…for free.
My priest preaches about money about once a year or so (the wardens usually have to nag him into it). He always starts by saying that the plate is for Christians who call St. Alban’s their church home, and tells everyone else to let the plate pass them by, and to be sure to come downstairs for coffee and treats after; that this particular sermon is for Christians, and if you haven’t given your life to Christ yet, we don’t want your money. He NEVER asks for money from the pulpit. I think that is an elegant solution. Christians do need to learn how to properly handle their money.
David Hayward is an artist trapped in a pastor's body, stripping to the essential.
I appreciate the shading and color.
Is it about banks, or is it about banks? I’m confused.
well b., i thought the church and christian tv shows, but banks work too i guess ,)
LOL!
Love it!
… and there’s the time machine with the sign: “Please give us your time, so that we can use it to guilt you into giving us more time.”
I’m preaching a series on stewardship and just made the point of how pointless this type of appeal is last Sunday!
Churches do need money, but they ought not harp on it.
Every great once in awhile, a reminder may be necessary.
Focus on the gospel, and the money will come.
Steve,
I am trying to remember, didn’t Jesus’ group have a treasurer? Hehehe.
That could possible bring about interesting discussions from two very different angles.
Oh, I hate the hucksters.
However, giving money was not an issue Jesus shyed away from. It certainly wasn’t taboo.
But, oh, I hate the hucksters.
fishon
fishon,
Touche’ !
How ’bout this variation: “Please send us your money so that we may remain rich enough to continue to rob you.” That, I think, is true of both the banks and many churches (in their own ways).
that works.
Started a discussion about this over at my Facebook page – we really have to look at this whole financial cash cow biz.
The giant bolt on the door looks like a pound sign! Churches making money happens very rarely in the UK – I guess we don’t have the money or aren’t as enthusiastic or impressionable. I personally wouldn’t feel very comfortable about giving a tenth of my income to a church.
If money was the only thing holding the church back from doing the work of the gospel, then we would see a great deal more being done by the mega-churches. The effectiveness of our churches has diminished because of the woundedness of the hearts and the dryness of the leaders in the church. Your heart goes where your money goes. If your money is going nowhere, then your heart is standing still.
“Ministers say that they teach charity. This is natural. They live on alms. All beggars teach that others should give.”
–Robert G. Ingersoll
No offence David…you know I love you.
I just think that if churches adopted a new model, say, ministers that had other professions, rather than being completely dependant on the gifts from other church members, and if the members met in homes, rather than in their &%$ @$#% giant, million dollar tax free buildings, then the church would not “need” any money.
Just seems to me, if today’s church is modeled after the New Testament church, then who ever invented the New Testament church…screwed up.
The ones that bother me the most are the ones who say that their ability to feed children, buy a building etc. depends on my giving. I don’t mind an opportunity to be part of a project, or for a ministry letter to have a place attatched to fill out if you wish to support the work…what I do mind is monthly solicitations which are just that…no teaching, no newsletter, no magazine…just the “…your continual support allows us to…” For four years, I didn’t take up an offering…there was just a basket on the refreshment table…and there was always plenty and we were able to assist many people. In the vision there is the provision…and when things are right, the finances show up.
preacherlady,
We still don’t pass the plate. Just a box in the back for anyone who wants to give.
I have only preached 2 times in 11 yrs. about giving–tithes–offerings. Not saying that is good or bad.
Now I have asked maybe 3–4 times for special offerings for 9-11——–Katrina—-tsunami—-???
“Ministers say that they teach charity. This is natural. They live on alms. All beggars teach that others should give.”
–Robert G. Ingersoll
____________”At the height of Ingersoll’s fame, audiences would pay $1 or more to hear him speak, a giant sum for his day.” —-Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
—————————Hmmmmm, sounds like he received alms. Paid to hear him speak:hehhe.
fishon
In my own fellowship I don’t think I ever taught about giving. If there was something big going on i.e. we were picking up someones heating bill for the winter, and things like Katrina, I’d just mention that we were going to participate and the gang would step up to the plate. I have done a series on giving in someone else’s church. Giving was down, the attitude from the pastoral staff and the board about small gifts was horrendous, and the congregation was all about “I want, I want, I want.” There needed to be some correction. Two wonderful books about supply are by two off the beaten path authors…Spiritual Economics by Eric Butterworth (I think he’s Unity) and Invisible Supply by Joel Goldsmith…he was a 20th century Christian mystic. Invisible Supply has to be my favorite, and it deals with the complete and total trust in God for supply. Great stuff!
Alice,
May pick up one of the recommended books; thank you.
fishon
—————————Hmmmmm, sounds like he received alms. Paid to hear him speak:hehhe.
Sounds like he was a paid speaker:hehhe.
Probably a difference between telling people God requires them to give, and telling them your fee for speaking.
Personally, the last thing I want to do is sit every week and pay to listen to one man give his opinion on how I should live. I can figure that out for myself…for free.
but what about “freely you have received; freely give”, and “if you have 2 shirts, give one of them to someone who has none”?
My priest preaches about money about once a year or so (the wardens usually have to nag him into it). He always starts by saying that the plate is for Christians who call St. Alban’s their church home, and tells everyone else to let the plate pass them by, and to be sure to come downstairs for coffee and treats after; that this particular sermon is for Christians, and if you haven’t given your life to Christ yet, we don’t want your money. He NEVER asks for money from the pulpit. I think that is an elegant solution. Christians do need to learn how to properly handle their money.