If I didn’t love you, I wouldn’t be so hurt about whether you’re going to Hell or not. Or which sins are sins.
Why don’t people get mad at me?
I keep coming because of the people. Even though some of my friends think it’s unhealthy. They’re still willing to pray for you (on both sides).
Fishy – if you’re not a baptist what are you??
And possibly off-topic:
the guy shouldn’t have said that about hell – once you’re dead, there’s nothing to be done anyways. But was he wrong? I’ve done a lot of searching about suicide, and it seems to be definitely a sin – it’s murder, it’s defacing god’s image, it’s definitely not continuing in the faith, it’s probably selfish. i think even contemplating it might be bad, and attempted suicide is bad, but if it’s only attempt, you get another chance. But how do you repent of suicide? how do you repent of wanting to die? and how do you stop falling back into it?
Semety said:::Fishy – if you’re not a baptist what are you??
———–Wrong.———-And why put a black mark on the baptist by guessing I’m one of um. Hehehe.
You know, I have done a lot of thinking about suicide, especially since I live in a State that has assisted suicide as law.
Now what I am going to say may seem gross, but it is real. I use to be dead set against any suicide, but a few years back, one of the first to get assisted suicide in the State came out and explained why he was going to do it. He had cancer of the intestines and other regions. He was vomiting his owen feces; gross I know, but that is what he and his Dr. said. I got to thinking about that, and I tell you, my thoughts on suicide started to mellow. It appears as you disagree with me on this, and that is fine. However, for me, well, I just don’t know if I see that as murder.
Now I hesitate to say this, but I will. Last week I was a the Dr. I happen to mention to a trainy that I thought that something was eating at the inside of my nose. She took a look and left immediately for the Dr. He came in a took a look. Yep, there is a hole and there seems to be some eating away. The Dr. mentioned the big C., but is passing me off to a Ear, Nose, and Throat Dr. Now I don’t know what will come of it, but I tell you that to say this.
I am not afraid to die, but the mind runs wild, so it has done that in the middle of the night. What if I do have cancer and they need to cut up my face, or worse, they can’t stop it and it eats away at my face? Semety, I am tough, brave, and can take just about anything; however, when I think of the possibilies I honestly can’t say what I would do if…. Now other kinds of cancers don’t get me worked up, but the thought of…does. I am definitly not afraid to die–but to endure the possilities, I can’t say I wouldn’t speed up death just a little.
Of course, I am hoping it doesn’t come to that, and if it does I hope that I will endure to the end. But there are some really horrible ways to die, and I am not so sure how far goes on that murder thing with suicide?
I think I disagree with your position, but I hope that people won’t jump on you because you have offended some of them because they have had family or friends commit suicide. You just take a certain position on a tough matter.
fishon
I’ll be honest – I have been hospitalised for suicide attempts. And that’s my stand. Just so people don’t think I’m not coming from anywhere with this. I’ve read certain things in the Bible that suggest.. I’m not sure. I have PTSD, but I think it may be a sin to use it as an excuse for despair. I don’t know if that makes sense? rejoicing is a command in some places – I’m pretty sure that doesn’t mean we can’t feel sad, but that we shouldn’t act on our feelings?
i’m not so brave – my friends help. I know sometimes my personal opinions are different from the bible, but I try to believe what the bible says. I try not to let my opinions affect my beliefs, but it’s easier to say it than act on it.
but sometimes there’s things that the bible doesn’t help much, then you need other people. I’m pretty sure I’m the newest Christian among my friends, and the youngest except for the kids at church.
It’s my brother’s birthday today. He turned 18. I’m afraid he’s gonna become a child molester, but I don’t know what to do.
If we try to escape aren’t we going against God’s plan?
Hell scares me. The whole idea – it seems like it would be inhuman not to have problems with Hell. and we certainly care more about our friend hurting then about the fact they’re damaging god’s image…
I don’t know.
My last attempt was a couple weeks ago. It was my first since I was saved. My pastor is also my counsellor – he told me to repent. He had verses to back himself up. I trust his judgement.
Semety: Could I make a suggestion? I’m not contradicting your pastor. But I sometimes worry that, in spite of our best intentions, we are not helpful to others when we try. Can I suggest, perhaps, getting a second opinion? Sure, repentance might be something you want to do. But there’s more at work than just, say, sin. Sometimes our inner illnesses can be addressed and even healed.
As you know, David and I don’t agree on many things; however, I am in COMPLETE agreement with him when he says: “But there’s more at work than just say sin. Sometimes our inner illnesses [and we all have them] can be addressed and even healed.”
One more day, my friend, always push on to one more day. For the possiblities for tomorrow are waiting for you to make it to tomorrow, and there is always a tomorrow until God calls us home.
jerry [fishon]
Jerry this is the first time I dare to write to you. In your last few posts I see a non judgemental human side to you wich I like very much. I even stopped getting nightmares about you wanting to throw me into hell . How about showing this side more often in your contributions to this blog?
Gabriel,
I hesitate to write you because as you know, most of us humans like to be liked. And I sense that you might be saying, “Oh, this guy isn’t so bad, he might be a good guy after all.” And I hate to blow that thought.
Rest assured, I do NOT want to throw you or anyone into hell. Well, that is not completely true. The flesh part of me would throw some into hell, but I seriously doubt that any of the kind hang around religious blog much. I am 99% positive that none of those that I would throw into hell have contributed to this blog site. But, I am not God, so I do NOT have any say as to anyones place after physical death, anyway.
I am not sure how to show a more ‘non-judgemental’ side of me when in debate about hot-button issues. For to some people, to disagree with them on any subject–or to call something as sin because of what the Bible says is to be labeled “judgemental.”
Maybe I have to do what I did earlier this morning. I wrote a comment to David’s latest post, re-read it a couple of times, then hit delete. I deleted, not because what I said, but because to say it would cause some to see me as just being argumentative. In reality, those who have labeled me as judgemental, hater, bigot, intolerant, have somewhat quieted my voice, but that does not change my opinions.
None-the-less, I am very happy that you do see a human side to me. It is the dominating side of me–not because of me, but because of Jesus and his teachings. Sometimes, this communication venue makes it hard to see.
jerry
fishon: I hope you don’t mind me replying to your comment intended for Gabriel. One thing I want to make clear to you: don’t lose your fire. I’m not asking to kill the beast. Just tame it. I’m not one of those Christians who would like to turn all men into wimps. You are a passionate man with strong opinions. I value that, and so does this forum.
It’s interesting that so many “Christians” oppose homosexuality so vehemently, pointing to OT scripture as their authority. Yet they continually choose to limit or misread those scriptures, which also call for the execution of gays. Where is their consistency? I thought they were wanting to see God’s moral law enforced? And of course, that’s quite understandable, it’s so much easier than love.
As long as they’re wanting to see God’s moral laws enforced, perhaps they can also work to see slavery legalized again. After all, it’s right there in the Torah, with those verses about homosexuality.
How do I say this? Before I was saved – I went to counsellors, I was in the hospital, I was on antidepressants, I had very bad PTSD (flashbacks, nightmares, panic attacks), voices in my head, cutting, depression, etc.. I stopped taking the pills after I overdosed, and stopped going to a counsellor because it didn’t help much.
After I was saved – the voices disappeared, the PTSD symptoms decreased significantly (I can hug my friends now), I struggle with stopping cutting, but it’s a lot easier, and I haven’t done it in awhile. Repenting helped more than counsellors or pills ever did. But it’s hard changing thoughts that have been around for awhile.
My friends said it would hurt them if I died, but it’s hard to believe them in that state. But one thing that helped me was an old guy who’s my friend said that “God owns us” He made us, and he redeemed us, so he owns us twice. that doesn’t scare as much as it used to when God kept reminding me of my dad
Memnon….I agree, the selectivity issue often gets under the wire…it has been known for a long time that much of the OT is below our understanding of what is moral, but doesn’t seem to deter those who want to cherry-pick
Someone’s explained to me (I’m not sure I agree) that the OT can be divided into ceremonial, cultural and moral law. Also the NT trumps OT – sabbath, unclean animals, sacrifices, circumcision were all repealed or fufilled.
From what I’ve read (I’m not sure on this) – the death penalty is regulated, and there has to be witnesses or something. I don’t like the idea of a death penalty – because that means sending people to Hell, but if it weren’t for that, it would be good. And I think it’s what’s supposed to happen.
On slavery – this is a response from one of my friends to a questionnaire. The question was something like why does the bible support slavery if it’s clearly wrong?
” First, I have to ask, who is he to say “slavery is clearly wong”? He has no moral standard other than his own opinions.
He’s right, the Bible does not condemn slavery. Therefore, he is wrong, slavery is not clearly wrong.
The Bible condemns kidnapping, something often associated with (but not necessarily equated with) slavery.
The Bible regulates slavery and condemns oppression of slaves. Slavery was often a way to pay a debt – an irresponsible person who could not manage his own life (and pay his debts) would be put in a position where he would have to work and be supervised more closely. We may not realize it, but this natural consequence happens even today in a way: a person who works hard on his own will end up on top (eg. running his own business) and a person who slacks off will end up having to work for someone else and take orders”
David Hayward is a pastor artistically stripping to the essential.
actually, more than workable. thanks very much.
Gosh darn Dad, does that mean I have to play nice with Jerry from now on??
oh oh!….Elder Brother Syndrome Alert!
David, you should go and work for the UN! Thanks for your example of humility and honesty-you display a rare and special combination of those two!
If I didn’t love you, I wouldn’t be so hurt about whether you’re going to Hell or not. Or which sins are sins.
Why don’t people get mad at me?
I keep coming because of the people. Even though some of my friends think it’s unhealthy. They’re still willing to pray for you (on both sides).
Fishy – if you’re not a baptist what are you??
And possibly off-topic:
the guy shouldn’t have said that about hell – once you’re dead, there’s nothing to be done anyways. But was he wrong? I’ve done a lot of searching about suicide, and it seems to be definitely a sin – it’s murder, it’s defacing god’s image, it’s definitely not continuing in the faith, it’s probably selfish. i think even contemplating it might be bad, and attempted suicide is bad, but if it’s only attempt, you get another chance. But how do you repent of suicide? how do you repent of wanting to die? and how do you stop falling back into it?
Semety said:::Fishy – if you’re not a baptist what are you??
———–Wrong.———-And why put a black mark on the baptist by guessing I’m one of um. Hehehe.
You know, I have done a lot of thinking about suicide, especially since I live in a State that has assisted suicide as law.
Now what I am going to say may seem gross, but it is real. I use to be dead set against any suicide, but a few years back, one of the first to get assisted suicide in the State came out and explained why he was going to do it. He had cancer of the intestines and other regions. He was vomiting his owen feces; gross I know, but that is what he and his Dr. said. I got to thinking about that, and I tell you, my thoughts on suicide started to mellow. It appears as you disagree with me on this, and that is fine. However, for me, well, I just don’t know if I see that as murder.
Now I hesitate to say this, but I will. Last week I was a the Dr. I happen to mention to a trainy that I thought that something was eating at the inside of my nose. She took a look and left immediately for the Dr. He came in a took a look. Yep, there is a hole and there seems to be some eating away. The Dr. mentioned the big C., but is passing me off to a Ear, Nose, and Throat Dr. Now I don’t know what will come of it, but I tell you that to say this.
I am not afraid to die, but the mind runs wild, so it has done that in the middle of the night. What if I do have cancer and they need to cut up my face, or worse, they can’t stop it and it eats away at my face? Semety, I am tough, brave, and can take just about anything; however, when I think of the possibilies I honestly can’t say what I would do if…. Now other kinds of cancers don’t get me worked up, but the thought of…does. I am definitly not afraid to die–but to endure the possilities, I can’t say I wouldn’t speed up death just a little.
Of course, I am hoping it doesn’t come to that, and if it does I hope that I will endure to the end. But there are some really horrible ways to die, and I am not so sure how far goes on that murder thing with suicide?
I think I disagree with your position, but I hope that people won’t jump on you because you have offended some of them because they have had family or friends commit suicide. You just take a certain position on a tough matter.
fishon
Wow fishon. Thinking of you… as always.
I’ll be honest – I have been hospitalised for suicide attempts. And that’s my stand. Just so people don’t think I’m not coming from anywhere with this. I’ve read certain things in the Bible that suggest.. I’m not sure. I have PTSD, but I think it may be a sin to use it as an excuse for despair. I don’t know if that makes sense? rejoicing is a command in some places – I’m pretty sure that doesn’t mean we can’t feel sad, but that we shouldn’t act on our feelings?
fishon
I read somewhere once that there are 2 motivating factors in life
1. The pursuit of pleasure
2. The avoidance of pain
#2 is the bigger motivator.
My brother committed suicide because of the pain he was in. I have always wondered if it worked.
Thank you, NP.
Semety, wow, taking a stand on that issue while possibly being directly affected by it is courageous and Holy Spirit led.
TfT, sorry about your brother.
fishon
i’m not so brave – my friends help. I know sometimes my personal opinions are different from the bible, but I try to believe what the bible says. I try not to let my opinions affect my beliefs, but it’s easier to say it than act on it.
but sometimes there’s things that the bible doesn’t help much, then you need other people. I’m pretty sure I’m the newest Christian among my friends, and the youngest except for the kids at church.
It’s my brother’s birthday today. He turned 18. I’m afraid he’s gonna become a child molester, but I don’t know what to do.
If we try to escape aren’t we going against God’s plan?
Hell scares me. The whole idea – it seems like it would be inhuman not to have problems with Hell. and we certainly care more about our friend hurting then about the fact they’re damaging god’s image…
I don’t know.
My last attempt was a couple weeks ago. It was my first since I was saved. My pastor is also my counsellor – he told me to repent. He had verses to back himself up. I trust his judgement.
Fishy – what’s your name so I can pray for you?
Semety: Could I make a suggestion? I’m not contradicting your pastor. But I sometimes worry that, in spite of our best intentions, we are not helpful to others when we try. Can I suggest, perhaps, getting a second opinion? Sure, repentance might be something you want to do. But there’s more at work than just, say, sin. Sometimes our inner illnesses can be addressed and even healed.
Semety,
Contacted me at pastorkrew@hotmail.com, please.
As you know, David and I don’t agree on many things; however, I am in COMPLETE agreement with him when he says: “But there’s more at work than just say sin. Sometimes our inner illnesses [and we all have them] can be addressed and even healed.”
One more day, my friend, always push on to one more day. For the possiblities for tomorrow are waiting for you to make it to tomorrow, and there is always a tomorrow until God calls us home.
jerry [fishon]
Jerry this is the first time I dare to write to you. In your last few posts I see a non judgemental human side to you wich I like very much. I even stopped getting nightmares about you wanting to throw me into hell
. How about showing this side more often in your contributions to this blog?
Gabriel,
I hesitate to write you because as you know, most of us humans like to be liked. And I sense that you might be saying, “Oh, this guy isn’t so bad, he might be a good guy after all.” And I hate to blow that thought.
Rest assured, I do NOT want to throw you or anyone into hell. Well, that is not completely true. The flesh part of me would throw some into hell, but I seriously doubt that any of the kind hang around religious blog much. I am 99% positive that none of those that I would throw into hell have contributed to this blog site. But, I am not God, so I do NOT have any say as to anyones place after physical death, anyway.
I am not sure how to show a more ‘non-judgemental’ side of me when in debate about hot-button issues. For to some people, to disagree with them on any subject–or to call something as sin because of what the Bible says is to be labeled “judgemental.”
Maybe I have to do what I did earlier this morning. I wrote a comment to David’s latest post, re-read it a couple of times, then hit delete. I deleted, not because what I said, but because to say it would cause some to see me as just being argumentative. In reality, those who have labeled me as judgemental, hater, bigot, intolerant, have somewhat quieted my voice, but that does not change my opinions.
None-the-less, I am very happy that you do see a human side to me. It is the dominating side of me–not because of me, but because of Jesus and his teachings. Sometimes, this communication venue makes it hard to see.
jerry
fishon: I hope you don’t mind me replying to your comment intended for Gabriel. One thing I want to make clear to you: don’t lose your fire. I’m not asking to kill the beast. Just tame it. I’m not one of those Christians who would like to turn all men into wimps. You are a passionate man with strong opinions. I value that, and so does this forum.
Fision I can truly AMEN what NP just said. I guess I’m just as judgemental if I label you that way!
It’s interesting that so many “Christians” oppose homosexuality so vehemently, pointing to OT scripture as their authority. Yet they continually choose to limit or misread those scriptures, which also call for the execution of gays. Where is their consistency? I thought they were wanting to see God’s moral law enforced? And of course, that’s quite understandable, it’s so much easier than love.
As long as they’re wanting to see God’s moral laws enforced, perhaps they can also work to see slavery legalized again. After all, it’s right there in the Torah, with those verses about homosexuality.
How do I say this? Before I was saved – I went to counsellors, I was in the hospital, I was on antidepressants, I had very bad PTSD (flashbacks, nightmares, panic attacks), voices in my head, cutting, depression, etc.. I stopped taking the pills after I overdosed, and stopped going to a counsellor because it didn’t help much.
After I was saved – the voices disappeared, the PTSD symptoms decreased significantly (I can hug my friends now), I struggle with stopping cutting, but it’s a lot easier, and I haven’t done it in awhile. Repenting helped more than counsellors or pills ever did. But it’s hard changing thoughts that have been around for awhile.
My friends said it would hurt them if I died, but it’s hard to believe them in that state. But one thing that helped me was an old guy who’s my friend said that “God owns us” He made us, and he redeemed us, so he owns us twice. that doesn’t scare as much as it used to when God kept reminding me of my dad
Memnon….I agree, the selectivity issue often gets under the wire…it has been known for a long time that much of the OT is below our understanding of what is moral, but doesn’t seem to deter those who want to cherry-pick
Someone’s explained to me (I’m not sure I agree) that the OT can be divided into ceremonial, cultural and moral law. Also the NT trumps OT – sabbath, unclean animals, sacrifices, circumcision were all repealed or fufilled.
From what I’ve read (I’m not sure on this) – the death penalty is regulated, and there has to be witnesses or something. I don’t like the idea of a death penalty – because that means sending people to Hell, but if it weren’t for that, it would be good. And I think it’s what’s supposed to happen.
On slavery – this is a response from one of my friends to a questionnaire. The question was something like why does the bible support slavery if it’s clearly wrong?
” First, I have to ask, who is he to say “slavery is clearly wong”? He has no moral standard other than his own opinions.
He’s right, the Bible does not condemn slavery. Therefore, he is wrong, slavery is not clearly wrong.
The Bible condemns kidnapping, something often associated with (but not necessarily equated with) slavery.
The Bible regulates slavery and condemns oppression of slaves. Slavery was often a way to pay a debt – an irresponsible person who could not manage his own life (and pay his debts) would be put in a position where he would have to work and be supervised more closely. We may not realize it, but this natural consequence happens even today in a way: a person who works hard on his own will end up on top (eg. running his own business) and a person who slacks off will end up having to work for someone else and take orders”
He’s right, the Bible does not condemn slavery. Therefore, he is wrong, slavery is not clearly wrong.(Semety)
You may want to re-evaluate stopping your medication.
That was a quote from a friend – I’m not sure I agree exactly. There’s cultural context though, if you read the whole thing.
and my medication has nothing to do with it.
plus – the bible condemns oppression of slaves.