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It is one of the main jobs of the pastor to unpack the Word in such a way that it makes sense to the reader.
The writing in the bible is not self evident. Sure, the Holy Spirit will enlighten the believer, but that doesn’t mean that all trained pastors and theologians should keep their mouths shut will it’s happening. (although many should! -those that wouldn’t know the gospel if it hit them in the face)
If the bible were self evident, then everyone would agree on it’s meaning. One just need look around at the myriad of different understandings and misunderstandings of scripture to realize that it is not ‘self-evident’.
“It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, to prepare God’s people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith….”
That is Bible, not a cartoon.
fishon
Good one, fishon!
Preparing God’s people…not an easy task. Thanks be to God for those in that calling!
May the Lord strengthen them in faith, in knowledge of the scriptures, that they might pass along His Word, for the benefit of all those they come in contact with.
So much of what is taught about the Bible is done in the context of the social & cultural setting in which it is delivered though, which could be why it appears to be more complicated than it is. I think the main messages are simple enough – love, love, love – and the holy spirit will open them up and convict the reader.
Why does it need to be complicated?
I don’t say this to invalidate the work of preachers and pastors and teachers – brilliant and helpful as many of them are. I just think its spiritually healthy if people take responsibility for their own study of the Bible, and I believe they will be led to understand it by God.
Cheers, Kim
Kim,
The message of “love, love, love…” could be in any book. It is in a lot of books. That is great. That is good. But that is not the main message of the Bible.
The main message of the bible is Christ Jesus came, and died, and forgives sinners. The main message of the bible is Jesus Christ. It is His love for us that matters. It is all about Him and what He has done…for us. Now that is love we can count on.
Thanks Kim!
It’s a cartoon about the church’s true ignorance to study of the scripture – which is a well known phenomenon. I tend to think most people in the church construct their doctrines based on what a pastor does teach – and builds from there.
Sorry, I was using ‘love, love love’ as a shorthand for ‘God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son’, and ‘We love him because he first loved us’, and ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul and all your might, and your brother as yourself’! Should’ve spelled it out more clearly.
If a believer depends solely on his or her pastor in order to understand the word they will neither grow nor understand it. The pastor’s job is one of leadership and guidance. The growth and maturity comes when the believer gets home and takes the initiative to open up and work through the scriptures themselves as well as applying them. Only then can they come to actual understanding and growth.
The basic message of scripture isn’t difficult for the layman to take in. Jesus summed up the law in loving God and loving others. The gospel is about as simple. The doctrine which surrounds our walk of faith however is sometimes more complicated and needs some explanation and personal study to be truly understood.
What gets me on this one is the title…perfect!!
I have a question:
What is the common thread in The Bible,The Qu’ran and the Book of Mormon when their adherents all claim their respective scriptures to be the Word of God?
“What is the common thread in The Bible,The Qu’ran and the Book of Mormon when their adherents all claim their respective scriptures to be the Word of God? (fif)
Well wouldn’t the common theme be they all view their books as authoritative scripture for living their lives?
Yes,of course,but do we have three authorities or one?
….or none????
What would be the problem with one authority?
fishon
one problem wd be….which one?…all they’re adherents are claiming the same thing
sorry,I meant their
faithlesinfatima said “one problem wd be….which one?…all they’re adherents are claiming the same thing”
True. But that does not preclude one of them from being THE “authority,” or only way, does it? Just because more than one claims to be “I AM,” does not mean one of them is not the “I AM,” does it?
fishon
“Yes,of course,but do we have three authorities or one?” (fif)
There are a few way of looking at this idea.
(a) They are all seperate authorities of their own respective faiths – this is how they are used at current.
(b) They are not all seperate authorities – but weighing that out is going to take study
When you truly look at it – all these religions go back to One – the Judaic faith and the scriptures there (Tanakh). Here is a timeline of some sort:
Judaism (2600+ years old) – Mono/chosen/land/law/judges/kings/prophets/temple
Christianity (1900+ years old) – Mono – with stereo/chosen/messiah/grace/disciples/no land/church
Islam (1400+ years old) – Mono/prophet/chosen/land?/law/temple
Mormonism (100+ years old) – Mono – with stereo/prophet(s)/chosen/no land?/messiah/true church + temple
The fact of the matter is all these faiths make some claim to Judaism – and build upon it – the Tanakh scriptures. Oddly enough – as the trend should continue – as we go further down the chain most build upon one another also in the line (which makes sense – they knew of the others).
Judaism (original Tanakh scriptures)
Christianity (Nt added to the Tanakh scriptures)
Islam (Qu’ran – incorporates aspects of Tanakh and Christianity)
Mormonism (Uses Tanakh, NT, and adds in new Latter Day Saints material)
So in some sense, what does it matter the authority – if we had to pick one constant – it is Tanakh (and the borrowing involved). Doesn’t this go back to Abraham in some way – ‘blessed are all nations through you’? Are they (each religion) not all blessings in some way also?
Thing is we are dealing with religion here – but we are also dealing with what I would consider a type of anthropology of religion (changing face of religion). Each religion does have their unique identifiers and changes to the original – but not so much they break the message of ‘being a blessing’. Does this make Judaism the most true? I don’t know – all I know is Judaism is the one with the promise about Abraham that has seemed to have happened – and each of these religions (as much as we might not like it) have also been ‘blessings’ all over the place.
I have met many good people from each faith – and I find it hard to knock a person for their sincere committment to faith. Yes, I have questions concerning each faith – but that doesn’t change the fact ‘good people’ have emerged from each one.
The authority question concerning scripture is a tough one – it all depends on one’s view or perspective of their own guiding document. I do not read the Qu’ran or the Latter Day Saint bible – I am not inspired by them – but I have read them and own copies. I was inspired by the Jesus story.
Fishon…
“But that does not preclude one of them from being THE “authority,†or only way, does it? Just because more than one claims to be “I AM,†does not mean one of them is not the “I AM,†does it?”
I agree somewhat…mere claims to posess an “authoritive written record” prove nothing about the documents either way,for or against.But that’s not really the itch I was trying to get at.Let me try to be more direct…With respect to the original post,I’ve been wrestling with how believers/disciples/adherents use “their books” to undergird and support their particular faith
With that in mind,I have noticed that many,if not most new converts can have,in all appearances, a genuine spiritual experience before any high doctrine of “scriptural authority ever enters their head.Now,some may say that just how it works,first you crawl,then you walk…baby food,then the meat,but this is my point…the world is full of “spiritual meatheads”…there are so many believers who wdn’t know an original thought,unless of course,they cd find the chapter and verse to unequivocally support it.Is it so difficult to comprehend how a collection of ancient documents may not be the final ,complete and indisputable Word of God,but mere human artifacts,sometimes godly,sometimes not,sometimes helping,sometimes hindering.?
faithlessinfatima,
I am afraid you lost me. Not your fault. Sometimes I just miss. This venue is sometimes so hard to communicate clearly in–and being a less than brainyact, I sometimes get lost. Onward to new discussions.
I have been trying to lay low lately. Got lots of opinions, but….
fishon
“Is it so difficult to comprehend how a collection of ancient documents may not be the final ,complete and indisputable Word of God,but mere human artifacts,sometimes godly,sometimes not,sometimes helping,sometimes hindering.?” (FIF)
No – it’s not hard to imagine – and if more people took your route their would be way less contention and division in churches.
However, what makes those books and letters of interest is their personal claim to being connected to God (inspired). Also it’s an anthropology of the growth of a faith that changes over time (ie: Judaism) – even within it’s own books. Something about the ‘hope’ within them resonates with so many (including myself) – offering a message to the broken, poor, and oppressed.
I can relate with the stories and the hope – and even the downfalls and problems within the texts.
SocietyVs…..ah,shall we say “the narrative is “the thing”…and does the it have to be rigidly historical or can myth and history be woven fine…a clothing for the soul divine
came acroos you blog and love it!
hilarious. if link to you, can i reblog this pic?