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	<title>Comments on: Persistent Truths</title>
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	<description>David Hayward is an artist trapped in a pastor&#039;s body, stripping to the essential.</description>
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		<title>By: Jerri</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedpastor.com/archives/2388/comment-page-1#comment-63824</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 03:31:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I guess I&#039;ve always liked this passage because I was once very much like the Canaanite woman.  I too was a pagan, and an outcast; and like the Canaanite woman, found myself driven to kneel at the feet of Christ, crying out for mercy....

When Jesus saw that Canaanite woman, and heard the words of her heart trickle over her tongue, I think his own heart must have swelled with tenderness.  So much so, that Jesus forgot that this woman was a pagan, and an ancient enemy of the Jews.  Instead, Jesus saw only a person in love and a person in need.  Jesus put the law aside and acknowledged the great faith he saw in the woman, and even though she wasn&#039;t a part of the family (Jewish) by law, she became a part through love.

Thus, the Canaanite woman&#039;s story becomes my story.   I would even dare to say, it is our story. 

In a world where we are constantly grabbing for the whole loaf, we would do well to revisit this story and learn that even crumbs from the most high God are enough to nourish, to heal and to save.  We have much to learn from the Canaanite woman&#039;s humility, her persistance, as well as her faith.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess I&#8217;ve always liked this passage because I was once very much like the Canaanite woman.  I too was a pagan, and an outcast; and like the Canaanite woman, found myself driven to kneel at the feet of Christ, crying out for mercy&#8230;.</p>
<p>When Jesus saw that Canaanite woman, and heard the words of her heart trickle over her tongue, I think his own heart must have swelled with tenderness.  So much so, that Jesus forgot that this woman was a pagan, and an ancient enemy of the Jews.  Instead, Jesus saw only a person in love and a person in need.  Jesus put the law aside and acknowledged the great faith he saw in the woman, and even though she wasn&#8217;t a part of the family (Jewish) by law, she became a part through love.</p>
<p>Thus, the Canaanite woman&#8217;s story becomes my story.   I would even dare to say, it is our story. </p>
<p>In a world where we are constantly grabbing for the whole loaf, we would do well to revisit this story and learn that even crumbs from the most high God are enough to nourish, to heal and to save.  We have much to learn from the Canaanite woman&#8217;s humility, her persistance, as well as her faith.</p>
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		<title>By: WebMonk</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedpastor.com/archives/2388/comment-page-1#comment-63728</link>
		<dc:creator>WebMonk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 19:26:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I have no doubt Jesus was learning things through his entire life, I just don&#039;t think that &quot;Oh, maybe I&#039;m supposed to be reaching out to gentiles too!&quot; was one of the things he learned here. Obviously, as he grew he learned, and I really have no idea when he realized he was God incarnate or even if there ever was a specific moment of realization, maybe that was something he always knew. Who knows! Maybe Mary and Joseph told him. He certainly seemed to know who he was by the time he was twelve. As he grew there were periods where I&#039;m sure he learned more and more about what he was going to be doing.

I don&#039;t think this was the moment, though. Like what has been said above, Jesus ran with  parables and extended metaphor all the time - testing and stretching people all around him. I see this as another instance, and like gracie mentions - I can certainly see Jesus very much enjoying a conversation with a person who responds back with understanding.

If there was a moment of realization for Jesus, I would suggest that a much more likely place it would have happened was a good while earlier in Matthew 8 when he talked with the Roman centurion and exclaimed with surprise at the guy&#039;s faith. Immediately upon exclaiming about the centurion&#039;s faith, he speaks of how many from all over the world will come to be one with the Jews in salvation.

In between Matthew 8 and Matthew 15 there are a couple other remarks that certainly indicate Jesus continued to have more than just the Jews on his mind when he was talking. If Jesus wasn&#039;t doing his common sort of pushing and challenging at this point with the woman, I think Jesus would had to have sort of forgotten about the centurion and his other statements he had made before.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have no doubt Jesus was learning things through his entire life, I just don&#8217;t think that &#8220;Oh, maybe I&#8217;m supposed to be reaching out to gentiles too!&#8221; was one of the things he learned here. Obviously, as he grew he learned, and I really have no idea when he realized he was God incarnate or even if there ever was a specific moment of realization, maybe that was something he always knew. Who knows! Maybe Mary and Joseph told him. He certainly seemed to know who he was by the time he was twelve. As he grew there were periods where I&#8217;m sure he learned more and more about what he was going to be doing.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think this was the moment, though. Like what has been said above, Jesus ran with  parables and extended metaphor all the time &#8211; testing and stretching people all around him. I see this as another instance, and like gracie mentions &#8211; I can certainly see Jesus very much enjoying a conversation with a person who responds back with understanding.</p>
<p>If there was a moment of realization for Jesus, I would suggest that a much more likely place it would have happened was a good while earlier in Matthew 8 when he talked with the Roman centurion and exclaimed with surprise at the guy&#8217;s faith. Immediately upon exclaiming about the centurion&#8217;s faith, he speaks of how many from all over the world will come to be one with the Jews in salvation.</p>
<p>In between Matthew 8 and Matthew 15 there are a couple other remarks that certainly indicate Jesus continued to have more than just the Jews on his mind when he was talking. If Jesus wasn&#8217;t doing his common sort of pushing and challenging at this point with the woman, I think Jesus would had to have sort of forgotten about the centurion and his other statements he had made before.</p>
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		<title>By: Jesus and the Canaanite woman &#124; J Puddy.net</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedpastor.com/archives/2388/comment-page-1#comment-63705</link>
		<dc:creator>Jesus and the Canaanite woman &#124; J Puddy.net</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 17:22:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] Persistent Truths &#124; nakedpastor. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Persistent Truths | nakedpastor. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://www.nakedpastor.com/archives/2388/comment-page-1#comment-63702</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 16:26:53 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I think NP is spot on here.
It seems people agree that Jesus had to learn things as he grew up, as that is part and parcel of our humanity.  Yet Jesus shows us what true humanity looks like, what it really means to be a human and how to live a life that expresses a full and abundant life.

I don&#039;t see why it is so hard to comprehend that this encounter that Jesus has with this women could be seen as Jesus learning something new and having his outlook changed through this encounter.

Even on the night of his betrayal he searched his Father for another way than the cross.  He was learning on the spot what it meant to follow his Father&#039;s will.  He didn&#039;t just say those prayers in Gethsemane as an act of humility, he said it because he was actually asking if there was another way out of this, and in asking, learnt obedience to his Father.  So Jesus learnt throughout his life new things about his calling.  Because that&#039;s what humans do, we learn day by day.

Jesus learnt something new through the encounter with this women.  I think what this also shows us is that God is speaking through what we would see as surprising places.  Yet they are not surprising to God.

I don&#039;t believe this was Jesus testing the woman, there is nothing in the text that suggests that.  We have the women teaching Jesus.  I think this is what some are having trouble with, that a women is teaching Jesus.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think NP is spot on here.<br />
It seems people agree that Jesus had to learn things as he grew up, as that is part and parcel of our humanity.  Yet Jesus shows us what true humanity looks like, what it really means to be a human and how to live a life that expresses a full and abundant life.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t see why it is so hard to comprehend that this encounter that Jesus has with this women could be seen as Jesus learning something new and having his outlook changed through this encounter.</p>
<p>Even on the night of his betrayal he searched his Father for another way than the cross.  He was learning on the spot what it meant to follow his Father&#8217;s will.  He didn&#8217;t just say those prayers in Gethsemane as an act of humility, he said it because he was actually asking if there was another way out of this, and in asking, learnt obedience to his Father.  So Jesus learnt throughout his life new things about his calling.  Because that&#8217;s what humans do, we learn day by day.</p>
<p>Jesus learnt something new through the encounter with this women.  I think what this also shows us is that God is speaking through what we would see as surprising places.  Yet they are not surprising to God.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t believe this was Jesus testing the woman, there is nothing in the text that suggests that.  We have the women teaching Jesus.  I think this is what some are having trouble with, that a women is teaching Jesus.</p>
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