I would like to see more people willing to serve the church. I mean serve. I think one of the things most lacking in the church is servers… people who are just willing to serve their fellow human being. But there’s a problem: even though we believe in grace, we still get exasperated, disappointed, frustrated, angry and eventually even give up when the people we serve don’t measure up to our expecations. Unlike our master who served and served and served until the people he served served him up on a platter and even then he begged for God to forgive them, we serve but stop as soon as the people don’t deserve it (or… don’t deserve us). Where are those who would serve and serve and serve the church, who would minister, in spiritual language, to the body of Jesus, without even expecting a thank-you? Where are such people?
I’m reminded of Guillaume Farel who pleaded with John Calvin to stay in Geneva to serve the church there and help the city. After much persuasion, Calvin abandoned his own plans to begin a rich but difficult life of service to the church. I confess to you all that I’m not anywhere near serving the church selflessly, but I desire it. And I desire to see others join me in my desire. I guarantee that serving the church will be filled with frustrations. It isn’t easy. There are great sacrifices to be made. But someone has to do it! The body of Jesus needs servers. The body of Jesus needs sacrificers. The body of Jesus needs slaves. That’s my appeal.
Contributions to nakedpastor are greatly appreciated.
David Hayward is a pastor artistically stripping to the essential.
I’m a homeschooling mom of 3 that only gets on the computer once maybe twice a day in short intervals so I’ll probably only have this brief chance to make a comment. I hope to try and check back again soon : )
I have to say I can see a side to many of those of you whom have taken the time to give a response. Just a question though, maybe just to add a different ingredient to the mix.
Deanna you said “Thankfully my church doesn’t have this attitude and they care. In fact my church does a few things above and beyond that they really don’t “have to doâ€, but wow, I am so grateful for their love and care.” My question is since you seem so pleased with the congregation that God has so lovingly provided you with what do you do when you get a person like Daniel or ttm who seem to have such great passions for outreach but have been ‘jaded’ by the church experience. Do they just become a thorn in your side? Someone extra who doesn’t see things the way the majority does (the way most ‘pastors do’)? From the answers I’ve read it seems the responses would be glad my congregation doesn’t have the same thinking as you “why don’t you just move on”.
Now I’m not specifically saying that any of you wouldn’t step up to the plate and give an extra dose of love to a person like Daniel or ttm but I haven’t read into any of that in these responses. True though Deanna, “One can never tell what one truly intends by what they write on a comment”. That is a very true statement! Emails are hard to read into what is truly in someone’s heart.
Again just wanted to add something else, maybe a different perspective
love to you all! have a great day.
Someone with a view other than the core values of our church would certainly be welcome to attend our services. However, it’s important that they have understanding of what our church stands for, and why. And that they realize upon coming that they are not there to change our mission, vision and core values.
Quite honestly I’m very blessed in that our church leadership is very specific as far as the way they expect not only the congregation to relate to one another, but also exactly how the expect pastor to be treated. This is simply understood within this congregation. There is no question about it, nor would our leadership be open to change in this regard. If someone comes in who does not believe that way would want to attend services here, they would absolutely be welcome, but what they believe would not change a thing in the way things are done.
If attending our church, I would not tell them to move on simply for believing that way, certainly not! However I can’t imagine that they’d be happy sitting there week after week, or year after year, hearing and seeing how our church does things and it not driving them crazy. I think life is too short to stay in a church you are disgruntled with. When I say “it’s best to move on” I am not saying that simply for the pastor’s sake, or the church’s sake, but for that person’s sake. Really, in that case the church or even the pastor becomes sort of a “thorn” in that person’s side because they are so unhappy with the way things are. What does it do to a person’s mental health to stay in a place long term where they are so upset about the way things are done? It just doesn’t make sense to me to remain in a place for so long where you are opposed to the values of the congregation.
If you are in a place where they take very good care of their pastor, and shower them with appreciation and you don’t like it…well, why stay there and be miserable about it?
Actually, I have had things like this happen before just as you speak of, so I do know exactly what I’d do. Example: we have our mission, vision and values on large wall hangings in the foyer, and also on our bulletin. There’s no doubt when people come in exactly what we’re all about, and after we open the service each Sunday, we verbally tell them exactly what our church is all about again to reiterate it. I’ve had two women in the past few years who came as visitors, heard/saw all that and then called the office to say they didn’t agree with what we stand for, etc., and have issues, with the intent of trying to get us to change something so they’d feel comfortable in coming here. I said, “We’re glad you visited and you’re certainly welcome to attend here. We do care about you and your family. However, I need to let you know that absolutely nothing will change as far as the values of our church and the direction we’re headed.” One did not come back and goes to another church. The other came for about 2 months and could see that exactly what I said was true, and it wasn’t going to change, and she just became more unhappy so she did move on. I truly do wish her the best and hope she’s very happy. It’s clear every church is not for everyone…there are many different ways of doing things, and that’s why I’m personally VERY glad that in many cities there is a church on every corner!
Although, quite honestly, I can’t imagine someone seeking out a church on purpose where they don’t treat the pastor right… seriously, that sounds a bit off to me if that’s what someone is doing.
I want to ask forgiveness for my comments yesterday. While I do stand by what I was trying to say, I see that what I actually did say was offensive and hurtfull.
I by no means want to create strife and hurt but I did and I’m sorry for it.
Deanna and others, Thank you again for what you do. I may not totally agree with you but who cares what I think, sorry again for my words.
Grace & peace
Daniel,
It’s all good…
Thank you…you have a tender heart. I will pray for you that things get better. It also seems like you are going through a lot and don’t have a lot of support. I’m sorry for that and wish things were different for you.
I will pray that things begin to turn around, and that good things would begin to happen for you and yours…
Blessings & love,
Deanna
Deanna said, on August 21st, 2008 at 8:22 am
Someone with a view other than the core values of our church would certainly be welcome to attend our services. However, it’s important that they have understanding of what our church stands for, and why. And that they realize upon coming that they are not there to change our mission, vision and core values.
————Deanna, I agree with the above statement and everything that followed. You laid it out well.
fishon
I no longer serve my neighborhood church; but I am determined to serve and to love my neighbors.
Living in an inner city neighborhood, I see addiction, prostitution, and hopelessness enfleshed in the lives of my neighbors.
My former church? Well, let’s just say that the leadership there is focused inward not outward.
I don’t have the time or energy to serve the body of Christ. I’m too busy welcoming the homeless single dad and his teen son into our home (the family shelters are full in our city), and I’m too busy helping the Latino family down the street obtain legal immigration status.
Forget serving the church. It’s forgotten us.
“I don’t have the time or energy to serve the body of Christ. I’m too busy welcoming the homeless single dad and his teen son into our home (the family shelters are full in our city), and I’m too busy helping the Latino family down the street obtain legal immigration status. Forget serving the church. It’s forgotten us.” (Jerri)
I like what Jerri has to say – I think he gets/understands the ‘good news’. The church is too focused on itself in my opinion and overlooks people like Jerri works with – on an almost daily basis. Even if they do something foir the poor – it’s very menial and a side track – not something of focus for the church (or congregation).
I grew up in an inner city also with the problems Jerri also talks about – and I knew all the churches in the neighborhood – there was about 6 or 7. None of them really did too much for the poor or deal with the problems of these people. No one played Jesus for the poor in my opinion. People just are not willing to lay their lives down for this ‘good news’…it is good but not great for them.
I see where Jerri stands – I stand there with him. I have always helped people from the community I grew up in – even when the church did nothing or could do nothing (which was quite often) – or overlooked their problems as ‘meaningless’ (being not spiritual and all). But someone has to care for the people with ‘no hope’ in this world or the next…and someone needs to lay down their life so they can know it. Who is going to help the gang-member find self esteem? The abused spouse to find safety? The prostitute to find hope? The drug addict to find a ‘way out’? Churches cannot deal with these scenarios – they are scared to.
The church, to me, has become a middle class focused entity. It is now concerned with problems that effect the middle class – from theology to practice. It has become useless to me in that regard…I grew up poor and my heart will always be with the oppressed in society. The church always plays it ’safe’ – as far as I am concerned – everything is so…comfortable.
“it’s very menial and a side track – not something of focus for the church (or congregation)” I totally agree with this statement! I’ve been to many of the churches in my own area (I started searching at age 17) and this is exactly what I have seen. Now I have met a few pastors, my own included, who truly do have a heart for the needy and overlooked, BUT the amount of attention they actual give to those who are hurting seems “menial and a side track”. Their family and their church come first. And many have the intent of being on mission continually BUT again I don’t see that. One reason I’ve seen is they ARE scared to step out too much in faith and are ‘waiting’ for God to send them specifically qualified people to lead in different areas…what about equipping the ones right before their eyes (sorry that was a little tangent). Being on mission to me means equipping ones self and congregation with the word of God to be in and amongst the world more than just a planned gathering here and there (a trip to the food bank, a special service in the park, ect ect). Those are good starts but TRUE community to me is sharing your life, day in and day out, with those who Jesus’ heart ached for (I believe He didn’t leave anyone out…each of us past, present, and future were on His mind on the cross).
I think this is maybe where those in the middle group, not quite understanding the function of the typical church today, are. Like the Casting Crowns song says “If we are the body, why aren’t His arms reaching, why aren’t His hands healing, why aren’t His words teaching…and if we are the body why aren’t His feet going, why is His love not showing them there is a way…there is a way”.
We were and are called to be the salt and the light of the earth, not just to occupy a seat in a building, not just to maintain a select group of people, not just to treat those in need as a ‘project’ to take care of here and there. I truly appreciate the individuals and leaders who are really doing there best to help grow and encourage discipleship. I’m not one who hates the typical churches of this day, I’m just one of the few who see a need for something different, a something very real and tangible, an action to follow the many words.
love again to all!
I’m back again… lol…
Regarding what we were talking about earlier, I wanted to add this because I think you might find it interesting and show you more of my heart on this matter. Not that I haven’t blabbed on enough already…lol
In both cases where the two women were not in accordance with our values and called the office to argue their point, it’s incredibly interesting what their issue was. I promise you, these are two “normal” women who don’t appear to be mentally unstable or anything. But…
They were upset about our church covenant concerning how we treat one another! Each week in our service we say the covenant that our members have taken: (if you are a member of our church you have this memorized…I’m not kidding we even have two year olds that have it committed to memory…) It is:
“You will never knowingly suffer at my hands. I will never say anything or do anything to knowingly hurt you. I will at all times seek to help and support you. if you are down and I can lift you up, I will do that. If you need something and I have it, I will share it with you. No matter what I find out about you, either good or bad, my commitment to you will never change. And there is nothing you can do about it.”
Okay, so that is an agreement our members make when they become a member and we make it clear to our attenders that they are welcome to attend but if they stir up any problems, gossip, backbiting, yada yada, and we find out abuot it, that we take that very seriously and will confront it. Our motto is that we are an “extravagantly loving” church. If Christians don’t have this same belief, quite honestly we don’t want them here. (Never had this kind of complaint from an unbeliever. 100% of them have come in and embraced it.) We say of our church, “mean people don’t last here long.” Hurting people, yes. Needy people, yes. Broken people? Yes. But we draw the line at mean at least on our church campus. We’re not going to allow our members to be abused and mistreated and have our church be a hub of gossip and discontent. It’s our mission to be an extravantly loving church. Anything that gets in the way of that we deal with.
So these two women (not related – don’t even know each other) went ballistic over that and said, “it’s wrong of you to expect this of people as a condition of being a part of this church. I can treat people however I want to, and it’s none of your business what I say or don’t say about people. You can’t force me to treat people properly.” (I promise you, they said that. I know…shocking! The one said I was a “control freak” to even consider doing something like this in the church.) My answer to both was, “you’re right, we can’t say how you will treat people on your own time, but we can say that if you are on this property you are not going to hurt anybody. And if you ever apply for membership here, you will agree to this covenant or remain an attender.”
They both were very serious about the fact that we needed to get rid of our covenant, and stop going in this direction. Both liked other things about us and would have liked to stayed but just weren’t in agreement with this which is pretty much the main things we’re about. I said, “it’s never going to change, but you’re welcome to attend if you like.” They both moved on. And that was fine with us because we really don’t want mean Christians at our church. They just tend to drive unbelievers or seekers out in droves and we are about reaching and restoring people.
Thank you for being patient with my long post(s) and taking time to read it…
Blessings!
SocietyVs,
The church is too focused on itself in my opinion and overlooks people like Jerri works with….
—————-Oops, there you go again putting all the eggs into one basket.
Hey, SocietyVs, tell me, how many of the top 50 cities in population in the US have you visited? I can get you the names if you need them. And in those cities you have visited, how many of the churches have you visited?
fishon
Oh man…i just read the last few posts and all I have to say (for this post at least – lol) is, where in the heck do you people live? all in the same city? I just can’t believe there are no churches different from what you describe…and the stereotype hurts me quite honestly because it’s different from many churches that I personally know.
I’m in Tampa and I’ll tell you I can name a bunch of churches right off the top of my head without having to think hard at all…who don’t just do some little menial ministry to the poor or needy but have something major in this regard and are changing lives. Being in FL, we have a ton of homeless people here and such, and many churches/ministries that reach out to those who are disadvantaged. I am really sorry, very sorry that you haven’t not encountered such churches. For the do exist!!! I implore you friends to keep looking until you find one. DO NOT GIVE UP.
My church is one of many that I know who are feeding people on a weekly basis (we actually give enough food for a week, not just a day), clothing people, helping them find jobs, etc. Last night at church in one of our small groups we had two homeless people, along with a few professional types, a single Mom and a few guests.
This does exist. It really does. I am just so sad that unfortuntely you seem to put this label on churches of being totally inward or only caring about themselves…I know that’s the case with some. But not all. Really folks, this is like getting divorced and remarried and blaming and taking out everything your ex wife did on your new spouse.
I love the church! I will pray for you that maybe you will open up your heart and give it another chance.
Okay, I’ll try to be quiet now. (one of my hardest things to do)
If I were there, I’d give you a hug. Really.
Blessings
ttm , August 20th, 2008, 11:15 pm – I can relate.
Fishon – you in a skirt. Now there’s an image
!
Daniel – thanks man.
Deanna – you describing your church a lot more fully helped me. Thanks.
Just had a thought. Is there a place where believers (in church and out) can say, “hey, I’m in such and such place, let’s get together and serve.”?
I’d make one if there isn’t but alas, my skilz aren’t quite there.
Sarah,
My wife has a picture of me in a beautiful little yellow number with a head full of golden locks. I must say I was full-figured too. I wore it to a church halloween [oops, can here the reaction coming] party.
I was a young deacon at the time. The elders called me in the next week and gave me a tongue lashing. I didn’t get upset witht he old boys; I just laid it to their poor eyesight. They could not see the beautiful for my beard.
But when I said something stupid from the pulpit a couple years ago, my wife ran out the picture the next weeks service, and did the congregation hoot—-now I can see——–I was an ugly woman. That must has been the problem with the elders. But then, I ain’t a beauty as a man, either.
fishon
Fishon,
I’m sure your wife disagrees.
Peace everyone,
Sarah
“Hey, SocietyVs, tell me, how many of the top 50 cities in population in the US have you visited? I can get you the names if you need them. And in those cities you have visited, how many of the churches have you visited?” (Fishon)
How about we save the tavel fare for those 50 cities and you just send me all the churches (on-line) you think I should check out? I mean, if they have a website it should say directly what they are doing – as far as ministry goes. I know some smaller churches do not have a website – I don’t got the funds to check them all out.
My quote is a generalization – this is true – but the church in general does not care about the poor – sorry – them’s the facts. From websites, to my personal experience, to television – this topic is very lightly touched upon (if ever touched upon). I am not saying there isn’t some help towards the poor – usually dealing with the consequences – not the symptoms – and basically nothing that deals with the class of people truly struggling in our society – nor treating the symptoms. Sorry, from my experience – the church is not too concerned.
I stand to be corrected – give me at least 6 proofs from a variety of churches that shows me programs (I don’t care where on this planet) built to take care of the poor in society (including widows, drug addicts, gang members, impoverished, homeless, elderly, etc). I don’t know of any to be honest – so I want to be enlightened here…so I can say ‘I am wrong’ and the church is moving in this direction.
In the early days of this country ( USA) almost all the hospitals and colleges were founded and run by churches.
It wasn’t too long ago (the seventies) when 3/4s of all the nursing homes in the United States were owned and operated by the Lutheran Church.
What’s going on lately? Many things, I’m sure. I have no specifics.
SocietyVs – ooooohhhhh (cyber scream) this is so freakin’ exciting. Thank you for the invitation to give you some names of churches. (I’m serious, please don’t think I’m being sarcastic here), I am truly excited to tell you about some churches…you have asked for six, so here’s seven to start, but I’ll post more if you wish…or if you aren’t happy with these:
Dream Center Church – Los Angeles, CA – Pastor Matthew Barnett
Reimagine Church – Pastor Mark Scandrette, San Francisco, CA (this is a church although their literature and advertisements are not real “churchy” and that is intentional.)
Inner City Church of Minneapolis – Pastors Chris and Monica DeLaurentis
St. Paul City Church, MN – Pastors Steve & Jacquie Sullivan
Chicago City Church – Pastor Anthony Earl
Salvation Army – many people forget, they are a church first!
Last but not least, my church, Northside AG, Tampa, FL…pastored by moi and my dh!
WHY, WHY, WHY am I so excited??!! Because I am hoping this brings some HOPE back into your heart, and you see, the church world is not all as sucky and non-caring as you think it is, and maybe you will even think about hooking up with one of these kinds of places because they sure can use people like you who have a heart for this…
Also, honest to God I say this for absolutely no personal glorification whatsoever but I really want you to see there are people out there in the church who care for those such as you describe. Our church ministers to MANY in this regard, but just one INCREDIBLE testimony of a transformation that happened in one man’s life is shared in a post on my blog here that I wrote just last week: http://lifetimeintimateportraitds.blogspot.com/2008/08/give-god-glory-part-i.html
Also another story of one of our precious homeless people who was totally transformed here: http://www.northsideag.org/events.html
These are just two, and these folks are now some of my dearest friends, but we have many, many, many. I’m talking people who were homeless, on crack, you name it, and now they are totally on their feet…not just treating the symptoms, but having a CHANGED LIFE!!!!! Another guy, Jerry, who was homeless just last year is on his feet, has a great job, is preparing to get married to a wonderful Christian woman, AND feels a calling to be a missionary to Japan!!! I don’t have a blog post about his life but it’s probabaly a great idea that I write one to give God the glory.
This is why I am so excited to tell you this…what you speak of does exist. Thank you for listening to my enthusiastic rambles…lol
Blessings, blessings, my friend!
SocietyVs,
I just wrote a huge respond to you, but I see it didn’t go through. I will not do it again.
I am only going to say this. Website????????? If you base thinking and “facts” off of websites—and little experience–wow!
Oh by the way—I visited 9 sites and posted their ministries that you complained about. It was easy to find them. They are all over.
Here’s one just for your enjoyment:::::THE Pentecostal Church of Hempstead on Greenwich Street may seem an unlikely place for teenagers in baggy jeans, flashy earrings and T-shirts displaying defiant words like ”Bad Boy” to gather for breakfast.
Yet there they were, 80 rambunctious Latino boys, potential recruits for the church’s youth outreach program, bused to the church sanctuary on a school day in mid-February after having been identified by their teachers at Hempstead High School as current or aspiring gang members and associates. (A similar breakfast for 50 black youths at the school was held last fall at a Hempstead restaurant.)
If you can’t find any——-THEN YOU HAVEN’T TRIED.
Heck, another::::Emergency Food Pantry: The church operates a small emergency food pantry stocked with non-perishable food items. The pantry is available to anyone who has need. Contact the church office to schedule a pick-up.\———-notice: anyone.
Dang, another:;;;;Alcoholics and drug addicts make up only 30% of Celebrate Recovery’s membership nationwide. “We are all broken,” program founder John Baker says. “We have all sinned. We have all missed the mark. We are all struggling with a hurt, habit or hang-up. It’s time for the church to be a safe place–’safe place’ are key words–for hurting people to discover and receive Christ’s healing grace.”
If I go more it won’t go through.
fishon————so much more.
Not that you are one fo these pastors, but the pastors that I have served under and with lack the “shepherd sacrifice” I call it like Jesus displayed. Will they go all the way and forsake it all for the call? The cross of a pastor is a great one. Sometimes the pastor flesh bucks against the post from time to time and it brings confusion to the weak sheep. I say this with much experience, but never knowing it all. Have a great day
Deanna,
I too found many and know of many of those churches that SocietyVs can’t find. I had laid up 9 with a story behind them, and not a duplication of yours. But Must have been to much cause it got lost in cyberspace.
In all of the cyber talk here, I forgot about myself. I was a drunk and the church I went to had a SALVATION program—-and here I am, free, safe, and loving the Lord. Heck, the salvation program trumps all the other programs, SocietyVs is wanting.
fishon
Thanks Deanna and Fishon – 10 sites to check out on what I have requested – what more could I ask for (it’s like Elijah pleading to God where are all the followers – and then finding 70). I will check into each one of them and maybe post something on it – one of these days. I am hoping it is all cracked up to be as you have said – and since you both make them sound quite genuine – i am going to look into it. Thanks!
fishon – sounds like you and I eat out of the same box of Cheerios, and we don’t even know each other!
Yeah, I hear you on the SALVATION program thing…I went through the same one and it had the same results you describe. I didn’t even need 12 steps to get there…
Here’s one more, SocietyVs: http://commontable.org/ This is a church in Vienna, VA. I know nothing about them except what they post on their website, but if they’re really “for real”, this is a church in which I would be involved…if only I lived in Vienna, VA!
They do “service worship” on the last weekend of each month–instead of a Sunday “worship service”, they go out into their community and serve…cleaning vacant lots, home repairs, etc. I find that incredibly encouraging.
Hey SocietyVs,
Are you going to answer me on “Jesus is the only way,” question?
It will go a long way in helping to understand your philosophy on church programing in reqards to how the church’s social programs are to be set up, in your estimation.
fishon
Thanks Dena G for the link – I will also check that one out – looks very interesting.
“Heck, the salvation program trumps all the other programs, SocietyVs is wanting.” (Fishon)
I agree – I am like Deanna in that sense that the teachings took me from a broken point in life to one of wholeness (or at least a very nice life). This started for me with a committment to God – what some would call a ’salvation prayer’…what I would deem an actual committment to God.
As for salvation, it’s as only as good as what it means. I took salvation to be more than just a decision – but a series of decisions (a lifestyle). For me, conversion is not a one time thing – but we change as we learn the teachings and enact them. Our friendship with God is a committment on our behalf to uphold what God has taught us through others (ex: prophets or Jesus).
So in essence, helping the poor ala Matt 25 sheep and goats or the idea ‘blessed are the poor’ is part of that salvific lifestyle – an essential part I would add. I am y be on the path to salvation (or even saved) but that means I should live as if this is important to me (ie: salvation meaning healing (salve)). What is more important than helping another person? Is this not the message of our Messiah? The parable in Matthew 25 points us to an idea ‘Jesus is seen in the broken/poor’. Am I to look over that as not essential to my faith walk?
Salvation is important – it’s the decision at the beginning of the path – the committment to God to start a new life. That is very important – I am not going to doubt that. What is also important is where the ideas of salvation take someone…and if anything…it should be to the point of ‘unself-ishness’.
The fact ‘blessed are the poor’ is one of the beatitudes should speak volumnes in and of itself for part of our focus in this faith. I would also mention the a commandment that is at the heart of all this ‘treat other how you want to be treated’…is about the other and not us. I am concerned for this faith in the West – we might lose our compassion for the broken.
“Are you going to answer me on “Jesus is the only way,†question?” (fishon)
I guess what do you want to know? How I interpret the idea behind John 14:6? Am I too inclusive? Should I be exclusive abotu my faith? What is it I need to answer?
Regarding St. Paul City Church, MN – Pastors Steve & Jacquie Sullivan: I happen to have grown up in the same church Jacquie did. When I was in highschool, she was a mentor to a small discipleship group in which I participated.
I don’t know Steve as well, but I have heard both of them speak on a few occasions and can vouch for the fact that they TRULY have hearts that beat in a God-like rhythm. They sincerely care about hurting, broken people who are being restored (meaning they care about every one.
Deanna, you chose a very apt example of a church making a difference–one soul at a time.
SocietyVs,
Never mind. Enough of the waltz.
fishon
fishon,
DID YOU ASK SocietyVs a “Jesus is the only way question?” I didn’t see one. I think SocietyVs is sincerely confused; so am I.
ttm,
Thank you for asking. I went back and I see that you are right, and the I have caused confusion.
I think what happened is in my HUGE reply to SocietyVs, with 9 examples with comments of churches with the kinds of ministries he was searching for, that did NOT go through, I asked the “Jesus is the only way” question.
I did mess up. Sorry for the confusion——SocietyVs, I aplogize.
fishon
fishon,
I guess it happens to all of us.
Thanks for clearing up the confusion.