nakedpastor



10 Little Pieces of Advice to Take or Leave

Posted in thought by nakedpastor on the July 7th, 2008
  1. Lead leaderlessly. That is, lead in a non-leading kind of way. Serve. Step out of the leadership position continually. Perpetually. Create the vacuum for others to lead and serve.
  2. Don’t go anywhere. No goal. No destiny. No vision. Keep it real and keep it present. You either serve the vision or you serve the people.
  3. Don’t ever think of the “church” as some kind of entity ASIDE from the real flesh and blood people that constitute it. The church isn’t the entity, even though it wants to be and constantly endeavors to be.
  4. Allow worship and expression of all sorts to be indigenous. Never think of worship as instruction. It is God-ward, not human-ward.
  5. If prayer is always in the form of a song and never said or read, so be it.
  6. Allow freedom of expression, even if it’s going to be weird, uncomfortable, and questionable. Judge it afterwards. Yes, when done with mutual respect, we do get used to this honest and authentic form of dialog and learning.
  7. Let sinners play too.
  8. Question everything.
  9. Never be overly impressed with another person. No one is good but God alone.
  10. Don’t be afraid to kill the mood. Always be honest and free, no matter how uncomfortable you might cause others to feel.

If you liked this post, or would like to use it, please buy me a beer!



48 Responses to '10 Little Pieces of Advice to Take or Leave'

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  1. Jonathan Puddle said, on July 7th, 2008 at 2:24 pm

    I like it. I’ll repost it, if you don’t mind.

  2. fishon said, on July 7th, 2008 at 2:30 pm

    How does
    6. Allow freedom of expression, even if it’s going to be weird, uncomfortable, and questionable.
    Work with
    10. Don’t be afraid to kill the mood.
    fishon

  3. Daniel said, on July 7th, 2008 at 3:51 pm

    fishon,
    In my mind, the difference between those 2 IS where leadership actually happens, knowing when to sit-down and shut-up and when to stand and lead.

    Good stuff David. “question everything” I do, and I think it pisses people off. I’m not going to believe something just because you tell me to, cause “that’s how we’ve always believed.”

  4. P3T3RK3Y5 said, on July 7th, 2008 at 4:23 pm

    fearless advice! awesome!

  5. jim said, on July 7th, 2008 at 4:28 pm

    David, I find this to be the best doctrinal credo I’ve ever read on how to “have church”. Fishon had me thinking there for a moment; but, in going back to re-read the points in question, I find the first expressing liberty with the right reserved to examine it later, and the second promoting the other side of the issue: having the courage to be who we are in Christ. My only suggestion would be to tack to this one, also, the idea that fellowship is a merger in Him…

  6. SocietyVs said, on July 7th, 2008 at 4:50 pm

    I like the creed or list or whatever it is – good words.

    “Create the vacuum for others to lead and serve” (NP)

    I like this idea – it will motivate more communal partnership amongst all the people involved.

    “Don’t go anywhere” (NP)

    Can’t say I am a big fan of this – but I know what you are saying – since the vision can encompass and swallow true sincerity – and make the community kind of robotic/static. That being said, I do like goals and setting them – mianly for myself and to see what I am accomplishing in life.

    “The church isn’t the entity” (NP)

    Love it…this gets overlooked a lot but it’s an awesome thought.

    “Allow worship and expression of all sorts to be indigenous” (NP)

    Agreed. How can anyone tell someone what worship should like – when this is going to vary per person and their experiences.

    “If prayer is always in the form of a song and never said or read, so be it” (NP)

    How about ‘no public prayers’? That’s the standard I started using a few years back (for myself) – and I kind of dig it.

    “Let sinners play too” (NP)

    Now that’s community! I also think this is a good way to acclamate someone to the community.

    “Question everything” (NP)

    Irony…I even question this (lol).

    “Allow freedom of expression” (NP)

    I love it! I was thinking about what Fishon was getting at with his comment but it makes sense this can co-exist with ‘kill the mood’ – because then that is truly open – like normal life. Sometimes we try something to know we do not want to do that certian thing – or it doesn’t look as good as we thought it would. I value freedom of expression myself – but I like people’s creativity too.

  7. sarah said, on July 7th, 2008 at 5:34 pm

    Yes.

  8. davidbmc said, on July 7th, 2008 at 8:12 pm

    In the spirit of #8, let me try to further understand #2:

    Don’t go anywhere. No goal. No destiny. No vision. Keep it real and keep it present. You either serve the vision or you serve the people.

    Initially you had me. It was really contra-everything else and I LOVE the wisdom in serving the people.

    However, a thought popped in my mind of Moses in the wilderness just serving the people and not leading them anywhere. I’m not sure how that would have worked out.

    We need to serve the Lord first, then ourselves, then the people. What I mean by ourselves is taking care of ourselves so we are healthy enough to care for others. I dont mean in a selfish way.

    But what if in serving the Lord, he wants us to lead the people somewhere? I’m just thinking outloud and asking.

  9. Daniel said, on July 7th, 2008 at 8:27 pm

    @Davidbmc
    That’s the point, no? I think too many times with visions and goals we are serving ourselves rather than God or people. My goal is to do XYZ awesome thing so I ask God to lead me to that. I’m not serving God or people but me. But if I have no vision for me and only look to God for his vision asking how I can serve him in ABC, then I think by serving God I in turn lead and serve people.

    Moses, by serving people would I think lead them to where they needed to go in an organic (I don’t know if that word works but I like it) way rather than a, “OK Hebrews, we’re going to go here, pray God blesses this decision!”

    (serving ourselves in a healthy way is a given)

    I hope I make some sense, this is a thought ramble, I’m kind of wacked after the [crap :) ] email response I got from my pastor on this.

  10. Shelley said, on July 7th, 2008 at 8:36 pm

    “The church isn’t the entity, even though it wants to be and constantly endeavors to be.”

    For the first time I think I have a little bit of understanding about what you mean. I’ll keep chewing on it.

  11. keith said, on July 7th, 2008 at 10:52 pm

    An excellent list indeed. Some may leave it, I’ll take it!

    Peace!

  12. jim said, on July 7th, 2008 at 10:58 pm

    Davidbmc & Daniel: Moses did indeed lead God’s people out of Egypt, then around in circles for 40 years in the wilderness, eventually being barred from entering into the Promised Land himself. If we need to stick a rider on this portion of the list, let it simply admonish the fellow who is leading the pack to be completely honest in just how sure he is about whose vision he’s promoting. Everybody claims they have a clear connection with God nowadays, but nobody seems willing to admit to having gotten the message garbled in the process…

  13. davidbmc said, on July 7th, 2008 at 11:23 pm

    Moses’s wandering in the wilderness had nothing to do with getting the message garbled. He was being led by cloud by day and fire by night.

    It was due to the disobedience of the people he was trying to serve. Which is why I am asking the question about focusing on serving the people without a vision.

    To be clear:
    -I am in favor of serving the people
    -I am against a self-serving vision
    -I am against having a pre-owned vision and just asking God to bless it

    My question is, are we really ready to marry #2 on NP’s list? I’m just 8-ing.

  14. Nate Peres said, on July 7th, 2008 at 11:47 pm

    Like the thoughts. But too many rules. SC (that’s small chortle)

  15. jim said, on July 8th, 2008 at 6:27 am

    I could go on with the example of Moses and leadership, David, but think I am catching your perspective. As usual, we (people, in general) have trouble with words. Language may indeed be powerful, but the human brain does not always receive the same image upon hearing certain terms. We are, after all, individuals, with different histories. It’s why discussion is always necessary.

    In truth, that is the answer to what we examine. Any time we reduce this to a list of any sort, we bring it down to something less than His voice leading us in the next step. The real question is not about a formula for leadership, but whether we are willing to humble ourselves unto His reality and, in doing so, them humble oursel;ves unto each other.

    That’s about as best as I can say it at six in the morning here. My brain doesn’t do all that well running on all cylinders and right now I haven’t even had my first cup of coffee. Peace, my friend…

  16. Kim said, on July 8th, 2008 at 7:48 am

    I agree! And surely we have to “let sinners play” as that is all we have, all we are, all the church is made up of? Leaders need to admit to it too, and then it helps the rest to be more truthful and authentic. We have to be wary of seeming like we’ve got it all sewn up.

  17. jim said, on July 8th, 2008 at 8:00 am

    Nicely said, Kim…

  18. bob said, on July 8th, 2008 at 8:21 am

    7. Let sinners play too.
    This one confuses me. Is it meant to? I mean, who decides who the sinners are in the first place…sinners?

    9. Never be overly impressed with another person. No one is good but God alone.
    I despise this one. I despise it to my core. As a former believer, now non believer, I have met many, many good people, both religious and non religious. I have yet to meet a good God. What a sorely poor view of decent caring humanity.

  19. Daniel said, on July 8th, 2008 at 10:04 am

    bob,
    7. That’s the point, sinners try and judge other sinners while forgetting they are sinners as well.

    9. I’m impressed with many people but I think it becomes a problem when we put them on a pedestal, they will always fail us in some way. (see #7)

    I assure you, that there is a good God out there and that he loves you.

  20. Wilfred Bird said, on July 8th, 2008 at 11:04 am

    First of all the list is “ADVICE” not rules and I like that.

    I have been to too many chruches on power trips and this list speaks to me of someone who has a good head on their shoulders and puts the power back in the hands of the poeple. What I also like is the list only mentions G-d twice and people in almost every line.

    Our priorities as human being should always be to ourselves first. our family/friends/parishioners second and G-d last and here is why.

    If you do not like yourself you cannot like others. If you cannot like others, you most likely do not like G-d.

    Lastly, G-d is pretty secure in his/her self. In my personal life, I have a friend I call once a year and we have a good talk everytime we connect.

    I am sure G-d is much more secure in his/her relationship with us. We sometimes lose faith, G-d doesn’t.

  21. Luke said, on July 8th, 2008 at 12:47 pm

    AWESOME!

  22. Shelley said, on July 8th, 2008 at 1:36 pm

    Wilfred, who is G-d and why do you refer to “him/her” in that way? and I think if we don’t seek the love of God first then it is hard to love ourselves or others because I see God as being the source of love. :)

  23. Wilfred Bird said, on July 8th, 2008 at 3:32 pm

    the word “G-d” is something I picked up years ago. I am a limited being in life span and knowledge. What can I, a mere human being say about a being/person like G-d? I feel there is no one word in the English (or any language) that could describe or encapsulate G-d. G-d is neither male nor female, nor human. G-d is what G-d is. And mostly G-d is a mystery to me. So “G-d” is a mystery word. There is a blank space for all things I don’t know about G-d.

    On the subject of self-love. G-d maybe the source of love, but that love has to be lived out in our everyday life with other humans. Some questions I have asked myself is, who do I interact with more? Who do I spend most of my time with? Who do I worry about the most? G-d or myself or my neighbour/family/co-workers/friends?

    Well, honestly, every day, I see me in the mirror. I have been given one body and one life, and I am the only person who knows it through and though and can take care of it the best. That is the start of my day, so that is the start of my theology. Secondly, I see my family and co-workers and I have to deal with them regularly and I work hard on keeping those relationship peaceful and healthy.

    Lastly, G-d, who understands me through and through, knows my heart and my motives and my thoughts, can understand me. I do not have to explain my actions to G-d. I do not have to justify myself. I am who I am and G-d knows that. We do not mis-communicate, we do not lie to each other, we do not hold back anything from each. That is what humans do to each other on a daily basis and causes mistrust and broken relationships. G-d obviously will take care of him/herself. So I don’t worry about what God is doing or thinking. I have trust in G-d and G-d trusts me.

    I am a largely practical person. I believe in spending my energy and life on worthwhile projects to decrease human suffering and increase quality of life. I cannot do that for G-d, G-d possibly being infinite. What can I do for a being like that? I am sure that G-d has a good quality of life. G-d has everything G-d needs to be self sufficient and happy. If not, then may I need to serve a new god.

  24. Wilfred Bird said, on July 8th, 2008 at 3:54 pm

    my last line should read,

    “then maybe I need to serve a new god.”

  25. Daniel said, on July 8th, 2008 at 4:16 pm

    Well, since you are correcting yourself… You missed a G-d: (So I don’t worry about what God is doing or thinking.)

    :-)

  26. Wilfred Bird said, on July 8th, 2008 at 5:21 pm

    Thanks Daniel. I usually write in Microsoft Word and copy it over so I have no spelling mistakes. :)

  27. SocietyVs said, on July 8th, 2008 at 5:28 pm

    “Our priorities as human being should always be to ourselves first. our family/friends/parishioners second and G-d last” (Wolf)

    This is a good one – I actually like the theology because it does work – in all honesty I would have to say I follow this type of idea. I have to think about myself and family first, then my neighbors, and then God (again – who is self sufficent). It does make sense. I would also like to point out that in Judaism this type of formula is also followed where the focus is put on humanity and lastly on God.

    The great commandments do point us towards God – this is true – but the second commandment gets considerable airplay in the NT – on it’s own!

    Matthew 7:12 “In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the Law and the Prophets”
    Matthew 19:19 “YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF”
    Romans 13:9 “and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, ” YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.”
    Galatians 5:14 “For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, ” YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.”
    James 2:8 “If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, ” YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF,” you are doing well.”
    1 Peter 4:8 “Above all, keep fervent in your love for one another, because love covers a multitude of sins”

    That’s 6 passages pointing solely to the idea of loving your neighbor – and a few of them call that idea the encapsualtion of what this faith is supposed to mean.

    I think it makes a lot of sense for one to view their faith in terms of people first – God second. This is possible however – I have to agree with Shelly to some degree – what gets a person to that viewpoint – unless one values their belief in God (which usually is the antecedent to wanting to honor those idea from the commandments).

  28. davidbmc said, on July 8th, 2008 at 5:42 pm

    Interesting thoughts about the order in which we should put ourselves, family and God.

    Does Matthew 22 helps us prioritize that list?

    36″Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” 37Jesus replied: ” ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[b] 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[c] 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

    I’m just 8-ing.

  29. nakedpastor said, on July 8th, 2008 at 5:45 pm

    don’t you think that when john said that if you say you love god but hate your neighbor you are a liar, he meant that we can’t, can’t, can’t divide the love of god from the love of people. the heart loves period. the object of its love is not the concern. either my heart loves or it doesn’t, whether it’s my neighbor or god.

  30. Daniel said, on July 8th, 2008 at 5:47 pm

    This is an interesting view but I would counter with, if I’m loveing myself and others am I not loving God? So therefore my priority is only to love God?
    Basically I’m thinking in terms of Matt 22. How can we best love God other than by loving our neighbor?

    Just a thought..

  31. Daniel said, on July 8th, 2008 at 5:49 pm

    I think that is what I’m trying say NP.

  32. Wilfred Bird said, on July 8th, 2008 at 6:03 pm

    I guess I was thinking more about this subject and I have wonder, what does “loving G-d” look like in a practical sense?

    I know how to love myself: keep myself somewhat clean, eat, water, work on self esteem, etc…

    I know how to love my neighbour and friends: help them move in and then out, keep my mouth shut when they ask for advice :) , praise their lawn and garden care, etc..

    Can anyone tell me what love for G-d means in a practical sense?

  33. Wilfred Bird said, on July 8th, 2008 at 6:08 pm

    “we can’t, can’t, can’t divide the love of god from the love of people” – naked pastor

    Thank you for putting so succinctly! :) That also really answers my question on how to love G-d.

  34. Daniel said, on July 8th, 2008 at 6:10 pm

    Exactly that! Caring for the widows and orphans or the way I think it, the help/hope-less.
    Love for God to me is just love.

    I think another way is to praise him for what he’s done. Example: a while ago I realized that God made my wife’s skin soft and he also made my hand love the feel of her soft skin. I heard a guy a while ago talk about how he worships God when eating tacos, the fact that God made the individual ingredients taste so awesome when combined.

  35. Wilfred Bird said, on July 8th, 2008 at 6:15 pm

    “…my hand love the feel of her soft skin… he worships God when eating tacos” – Daniel

    I like that. Very insightful. I feel the same way about my relationship with G-d. It’s in those moments I feel close to G-d! The moments of passionate living!

  36. Shelley said, on July 9th, 2008 at 12:25 am

    I’ve been thinking about what loving God or loving myself or loving my neighbour looks like for me. It’s about knowing the other. The more we know and understand ourselves and each other the more we can love. The more I know God’s character the more I love him and I believe I was made to love him and be loved by him; to know him and be known by him.

    Author, Madeleine L’Engle, calls it “Naming”. In her work of fiction, A Wind In The Door, Progo, a cheribim, says, “When I was memorizing the names of the stars, part of the purpose was to help them each be more the particular star they were meant to be.That’s basically a Namers job.” Naming someone or loving them helps them be more of who they are meant to be. “Love isn’t a feeling, it’s what you do.” Meg the young girl in the story says, “When I am with Calvin, I don’t mind being me.” and Progo responds “You mean he makes you more you.” Then he asks, “Who makes you feel the least you?”

    That is the other side of the coin. In the book they are called Echthroi and they are the opposites of Namers. It is their job to X. In other words Annihilate. Negate. Extinguish.

    We know if we are loving or being loved by the results. Is someone feeling they are more themselves or are they feeing Xed?

    God is a Namer. He will even give us a special new name. Adam’s job in the garden was to name the animals but most importantly he named Eve. Then it says he “knew” her. I love the concept of sexual intimacy between lovers as being a form of “knowing” the other. It suggests a deep bond between the two.

    When I feel known by someone, when someone takes the time to see me, I feel like I am more, I feel loved. That is what knowing our neigbour does for them. That is what God means when he tells us to love our neighbour as we would have them love us. When we take the time to know God, to see him, he feels loved. Does he need it? Of course not, he is all-sufficient but does he enjoy it? With every fiber of my being I believe he does. It’s a sweet aroma to him as is our loving each other.

  37. YYK said, on July 9th, 2008 at 10:42 am

    I think Shelley has put it beautifully. I agree that we cannot separate love for God from the love of the people, but I want to put God first before all else. It would indeed be a lie for me to say that I DO but that doesn’t mean that I shouldn’t try or that we are commanded to or that he doesn’t deserve it. When I do it second or not even sometimes, I become enmeshed in the identity of other people and look for something in them in return to satisfy that burning desire in me to be unconditionally loved and intimate with another.

    How can I best love my neighbor if I have not found perfect love with my creator? It becomes daunting and daunting and over burdensome, and the burning bitterness in me comes back up. Self-righteousness often does, too. But I find that loving God (worshipping him, meditating on the Gospel to see its transformative loving power), leads me to moments where I glorify God to my neighbors. Loving God and putting him first in situations where it is not easy to love another. To know that I am loved completely and perfectly by the most supreme being who died to reconcile with me, personally — and then I can go out into the world knowing who is behind me, what he has done, and care for others as he has done for me.

    But so often I fall short of this, and that is when I rely on my own merits, put me and others first.

  38. bob said, on July 9th, 2008 at 12:44 pm

    nakedpastor said, “…don’t you think that when john said that if you say you love god but hate your neighbor you are a liar, he meant that we can’t, can’t, can’t divide the love of god from the love of people. the heart loves period. the object of its love is not the concern. either my heart loves or it doesn’t, whether it’s my neighbor or god.”

    I love the people I love. I love my friends and family. I love my girlfriend. I love the little stray dog I just took in. There are some people I just do not love. And, I do not love God, any god.

    As best as I can tell, I love with my mind. My “heart” pumps blood. I don’t think it is capable of feeling or expressing emotions, but my mind does possess that capacity.

    But that is not the point. My point is, since I do not love God, what does that say about the feelings I have for those I claim to love?

    David, aren’t you making some rather general assumptions based on the words in your bible? Do you really think, I mean actually believe, that by reading some anonymous writings attributed to some fellow named John, written 2,000 years ago, gives you the qualifications and knowledge to tell someone, today, whether or not they actually love whom they say they love?

    Friends, this is just one of the many reasons I am no longer a Christian.

  39. nakedpastor said, on July 9th, 2008 at 1:03 pm

    Bob: The point I was making (which now seems far removed from the original post) is that we can’t say we love this and hate that. In my opinion. You can differ. I think John (fictional or not) was saying that if someone says they believe in God and loves God but hates their brother, that it can’t make sense. Love loves all things. Salt water and fresh can’t come from the same spring, or grapes from a fig vine. I think that’s the point that was being made. The buddhists talk about the higher state of consciousness includes the love of all sentient beings. I think they are right.

  40. bob said, on July 9th, 2008 at 3:49 pm

    Perhaps I am looking at it far to rationally…? I guess, to me, just assuming that
    ?John? was correct because of where we find his words, is a mistake. We really don’t know that John was correct in what he said….or the varied interpretations of what he said. But assuming that you are correct in what you believe John was saying, that does not automatically mean that what John said is correct. It just means that you correctly quoted him…I think..anyway, the fresh and salt water doesn’t work, nor does the grape and fig comparison, for we know that, biologically, it doesn’t work (bear in mind I am no biologist). But we all know people who hate some and love others. To tell them that their hatred for an enemy cancels out any love they may have for their friends, all based on some ancient words, makes me afraid on several levels: because you base that belief on ancient writings against all evidence that shows that people can actually love one and hate another, and, because your sharing your belief, (while the belief it’s self may be admirable) only offers one more unattainable goal for the religious, guilt ridden follower.

  41. davidbmc said, on July 9th, 2008 at 4:49 pm

    two things-

    first, my emails of follow up comments are sparodic and making me very confused. coming back here helps.

    second, why would anybody assume that i am implying that you can love God without loving people just because i quoted Matt 22?

    The question was in response to in what order we prioritize our lives.

    Let me ask it this way. (Bob shouldnt bother to reply since he is not on board with the whole premise. Though he can if he likes of course.)

    If loving God is the first and greatest commandment, and loving your neighbor is the second commandment, doesnt it make sense that I place loving God first, since that LEADS to loving others? Unlike Bob, I find there are a lot of people that I do not like and will never like apart from Christ. However, because of my love for Christ, I have been able to overcome those prejudices and learn to love them thru Christ.

    (Not calling Bob prejudiced. I just imagine he is probably better at loving people than I am.)

  42. Shelley said, on July 9th, 2008 at 5:00 pm

    Bob, I mentioned earlier that loving is not a feeling but an action. In our personal lives we love (the feeling) people because we know them and a bond grows towards them. We have feelings of well being when we think of them and we want the best for them. At times when we are angry at them for something they have done, we don’t stop loving them but love then becomes a choice and an action rather than a feeling. A relationship based solely on feeling won’t last very long.

    Hate can also be a feeling or an action. Hate as an emotion is defined as intense dislike. It is also defined as “intense dislike that demands action”. If I feel hate I believe it hurts me. It is draining and a poor use of precious time, entertaining feelings that will not do me nor anyone else any good. Hate as an action is distructive. If I do something to hurt the person I hate…. well, I don’t think, as human beings, we need a book to tell us that is wrong.

    I believe that if we continue to hate someone it will eventually work it’s way into the love we share with others. Hate, being the antithesis, of love cannot coexist with it.

    If I am real, there are people I don’t like because of the way they make me feel when I am around them so I avoid them but I don’t wish them ill. I don’t hate them.

    Bob, you don’t strike me as the kind of person who would will ill against someone. You seem a caring person. Anyone who takes in a stray dog has a warm heart and compassion. Personally I believe that all love comes from and out of the heart of our Creator, God. I used to separate love into secular and Christian. Yuck. The love you have for those in your life is no different from the love anyone else in this world has for each other. Love is love.

    I’m intriqued as your persistance in reading Dave’s blog since I sense your frustration at the beliefs expressed here. I must say that I enjoy your input. As a fellow photograper we have a lot in common. Thanks, Shelley

  43. Wilfred Bird said, on July 9th, 2008 at 8:54 pm

    I think Bob is saying that “if you are basing your primary reason for love because a book says so, then you are an idiot.” My paraphrase, please correct me if I am wrong.

    I agree. I would tend to agree with Richard Dawkins on why I am moral or show love. My parents/extended family/friends/lovers/animals have all shown me love. I reciprocate it for various reasons: to keep the cycle of love going, to protect and feel secure, or to make my days go a little more peacefully. Whatever the reason, it is a give and take relationship. That is my source for love.

    Love for G-d is tricky. I would not say that I love G-d the way I love my fiance or the way I love my son. I love the universe around me that is amazing. I can’t count the stars I see at night, I cannot fathom the amount of molecules that make up my body. I can’t really understand how big this universe is. I don’t understand why a fly can fly! And i will never really understand what goes on in another person mind. The world is full of mystery and wonder. Those things blow my mind and humble me. I call that G-d. How can I show love for that? I guess by staying amazed.

  44. Quick round up « Spirit Cry said, on July 10th, 2008 at 8:41 am

    [...] The Naked Pastor has ten pieces of advice to take or leave. Indeed, take them or leave them. They’re a great deconstruction of the contemporary church. My favourite? Don’t go anywhere. No goal. No destiny. No vision. Keep it real and keep it present. You either serve the vision or you serve the people. [...]

  45. bob said, on July 10th, 2008 at 2:13 pm

    Shelley said, “…At times when we are angry at them for something they have done, we don’t stop loving them but love then becomes a choice and an action rather than a feeling.”

    I guess I would find it more appropriate to consider my hatred or dislike toward someone whom I do not have a relationship with. We have a local cable access TV station in my little town. Since I moved here back in the early ‘90’s, it has been owned and run by one man. He has single handidly turned our community into a laughingstock. He stirs up strife between the locals and the county government. He is a lier and a convicted felon. A very dis-likable person. I don’t like him. I have no desire to like him and feel no guilt over my dislike for him. What should I do?

    “If I feel hate I believe it hurts me. It is draining and a poor use of precious time, entertaining feelings that will not do me nor anyone else any good. Hate as an action is destructive.”

    I agree. If I dwell on my…negative? Feelings, it is harmful to me, emotionally.

    “I believe that if we continue to hate someone it will eventually work it’s way into the love we share with others. Hate, being the antithesis, of love cannot coexist with it.”

    Possibly, but how could I know if my dislike for the TV station owner, whom I have disliked for more than 15 years, how could I know, and I mean KNOW that those occasional feelings have an affect on my feelings for the people I like and love? How do you actually know?

    “Bob, you don’t strike me as the kind of person who would will ill against someone. You seem a caring person. Anyone who takes in a stray dog has a warm heart and compassion.”
    “Red” is such a cute little guy. Crippled in his hind legs, apparently from abuse as a puppy. I have to walk slow so he can keep up. I wept when I first approached him and he cowered in the corner near the shed, growling at me. Took a few treats to get him to eat out of my hand. Now, four days later, we are fast friends.
    Shelly, I am kind. I held the door open for a lady today and she didn’t even acknowledge me, not look, no thank you. Then, after conducting my business I was walking out behind her, hands full, and she let go of the door and it almost knocked everything out of my hand. I don’t like her. :)

    “I’m intrigued as your persistence in reading Dave’s blog since I sense your frustration at the beliefs expressed here. I must say that I enjoy your input. As a fellow photographer we have a lot in common. Thanks…”

    Shelly, you are just as confused as I am. I think I waste a lot of time here. Not saying that it is a waste of time talking to the folks here and reading what they have to say, but honestly, what do I actually hope to accomplish? I guess I just enjoy a good discussion of apposing views, when it comes to religious discussion.
    Would love to see some of your work. Photography is my passion.

  46. fishon said, on July 11th, 2008 at 1:19 am

    Bob said: I don’t like her.
    —–But Bob, do you love her?
    —–What I mean by that is, if she fell down and broke her leg, and no one else was around, what would you do?
    —–Oh, I know there are ways of tearing that apart, but love is often times more actions than any emotion we can scare up.
    fishon

  47. bob said, on July 12th, 2008 at 11:46 am

    Yes, I would help. Just don’t think I would call that “love”. Perhaps I really don’t know what the word “love” means…?
    See if this works: Me, Bill O’Reilly, and my son are fishing off shore, and the boat is suddenly capsized. I am the only one who can swim and I can’t save both. Bill better say his prayers, for I love my son. My dislike for Bill is not going to have any affect on how I feel for my son. I would not have to think long to decide who I am going to save.
    What does that say about me?

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