Ten years ago today this church split. It happened on a Sunday. I walked blindly into an ambush of grand proportions. People who had planned and prepared to overthrow this church’s leadership had everything ready. I didn’t even notice, I was so distraught, but there was a video camera set up at the back and microphones poised to record the whole take-down. Yes, the entire fiasco is on video-tape. Certain people were ready with adversarial challenges. One of the ring-leading women came up and took the mic from my hands and wouldn’t return it. Another man came up and helped her steer the service in their direction. They would challenge me with their demands while their friends and family would stand and cheer and clap and shout out their defiance. With the entire leadership team beside me (minus a significant and influential one), as well as Lisa, we finally and fearfully said a firm no, knowing full well what cost it was going to extract from our church and our very souls! There was weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth. Chairs crashed and flew. Yelling, screaming, crying. Children hid their faces and visitors gaped in stupefied wonder. This can’t be happening! But it was. That Sunday initiated a split in our church that swiftly and brutally tore half of our community away. Over the next two years we gradually and painfully lost another half again. I thought many times that we weren’t going to make it, that our death knell had surely tolled.
Continually it was predicted and prophesied that we would surely shrivel up and die under the curse of Satan and the absence of the Spirit and the judgment of the Lord. But here we are, ten years later, still standing. I wouldn’t want to go through it again. But I wouldn’t want to go back to the way we were before. May I dare say we are better for it? So congratulate us. God be praised, this community deserves it.
The painting is the creation of my friend Tina Newlove.
Contributions to nakedpastor are greatly appreciated.
David Hayward is a pastor artistically stripping to the essential.
Quote from Steve Witt, ” i do believe though, that time causes us to remember things differently”
I have recently seen how very true this statement is. It utterly amazes me to almost feeling stupified at how time can cause a group of people to remember things that were as though they weren’t. How someone can conveniently remember something in a way that makes them look better than was truthfully so. Wow.. how does that happen??? Please someone tell me.
How did what was an ambush take down (in my opinion) turn into “they were asked to leave”??? Ummm huh?? How did my being asked to not even return to visit Grace Harvest become “we never told her she wasn’t welcome”???? Ummm huh?? The same spirit at work both times. The same denial and utter ability to remember something in a convenient way that denies what truly happened.
Ok, taking a deep breath.. how can people think it’s over?? Such a devastating event that has changed so many people’s outlooks, lives, thoughts, relationships… does one ever let those things go and regain or become as though they once were… NO! Do we learn, grow and move on.. yes. But to deny it was real and it IS real does nothing but deny what truly happened, it keeps people from facing and confronting what they truly did. Just bury it and if you can’t see it then it doesn’t exist. Well guess what, my life’s affected by it and I’m not going to deny it. You (the group.. Grace Harvest) messed with my heart, you messed with my life, I am unable to forget that but I pray in time that I will fully (even more than now) forgive and heal.
Sorry to have gone on so long, just had some things that I needed to get out I guess.
great…i hope everyone feels better now! lets move on…
ps….dave…what do you think?
is that said how it sounds??
excuse me david for continuing to post on this thread… but that just pissed me off. somehow my venting is suppose to make me feel better and now suddenly just move on… nah i’m not like that. it’s even harder to move on when those who have wronged you don’t even acknowledge their wrong but justify it instead to make themselves look good. if i were more like Christ i would be already over it. but i’m not.
i was not present, nor was i involved at the split. i believe ten years is enough time to see god’s hand in something and not continue to be hurt and or bitter. blog responses are poor on showing emotion, so don’t read into anything what i didn ‘t say. if you need to call me…call 440-243-9001 t-friday…9-5. i’d be more than glad to talk with anyone. we may never agree. i already apologized for anything that i might have done as pastor that hurt anyone. my response has been to dave’s blog. we met recently. dave referred to the split so i read the blog. dave has disagreed with me and i with him, but we are able to share and enjoy one anothers company…that’s a good thing.
regarding laughing about the split in year 20….it was referring to daves great ability to cartoon about challenging situations. it was a response to him…sorry if you thought i was being trite. i’m comfortable sharing with him…he listens.
you are right, you were not present… therefore, my comments are not directed at you personally except for when i was addressing something that you said here in your comments to david.
i have never had a problem with you steve. my experiences of both splits with the same group of people are seperate from you… it involves those who have you on a pedistal (in my opinion).
i am glad that david listens too, it has made a huge affect in my life having him as a listening ear and a voice as well.
i will try to not read something into your comment, it just seemed very flippant. if i’m wrong i’m wrong, hasn’t been the first time.
sorry if you thot my comments were about you specifically. i have no issues with you steve. and i don’t understand your comment that 10 years is enough to see God’s hand in it. does time make something right that wasn’t?
no…but we are hopefully able to deal with it knowing that it may never be as we thought it should be.
true.
I’m in a camp by myself right now with what I am feeling and I feel a lot. Doesn’t mean what I am feeling is right nor wrong.. it just is.
And what I feel one day I may not feel the next.. but that’s life.. and we live and we learn. David, I so appreciate the open air that your blog allows. I love you and so appreciate your being there to lean on.
Wow. Dave.
I just read this now…
What was the deal? People snatching microphones? video taping? Why?
That’s crazy…
A few years after I moved away from the area, the church I was raised in went through what I consider its final split. They went through three pastors over the course of five years. In the end, at the time that several families had decided to leave, one old woman stood up in the middle of the message and shouted that the pastor was a liar, and that anyone who would stick with him should be ashamed.
Today, there is half of the people and a new pastor. Things are still shaky and the church has merged with another.
Sometimes these things don’t work themselves out, at least not for a while.
Ten years later and still going ..I can only imagine the lessons, pain, strength and dedication that was bestowed upon you and the families of this body. Seeing hind site with 20/20 version wondering all the things you could of done differently? How many times did you think that “God doesn’t put you threw anything that you can’t handle”?
I personally believe “the next stage” as you will of this ungodly pain is worse than the first tsumia that rocked our worlds upside down initially….the building of walls, isolation, and the emptiness that you feel inside. Looking for the hand of God to move and fix everything in a blink of an eye.
Traumatic Events move and shape our character. It enables us to believe that God will draw near, he is our comforter and he is always in control. Although we may never have the answers to why these unfortunate events happen. God will rescue his people and deliver them out of dry land.
So my prayer for you pastor is that you and the families of this congregation is walking in the fullness of God. That you see things through the eyes of Jesus and that you lead your people to a land that is flowing of milk and honey. That your cups are full and overflowing and dry bones are becoming flesh.
Michelle
Ihave read everythin that everyone has postedan quite frankly it gave me a migraine. In life things happen. For example: rape,child molestation,child abuse, neglect, abortion, hate crimes, persecution, terrorisim, slader, police brutality, slaver, juding a human being for own life mistakes, (God will judge you in the end not before) God has the power to judge you not anyone else in this world can jude you. I dont care if your black,yellow, gay, straight, pink, green, muslim, pagan,jew, canadian, we are all choosen as gods children. the list goes on and on. Thetower of babylon wasconstructed in the eyes of the lord as a symbol to all kinds that diversity is what we are. God made us with differnt skin, language, sexuality. I am so sick ofhearing about slanderistic things of religion. If you are strong in you faith inthe Lord and you believe your life has been under Gods tumb as a desciple for the Lord then you wont mind if someone is different. My father once told my homosexual brother that those that judge you for you only will be judged by God alone when it is there time to go. I was raised in a home where you respect one another if there was never any religion we did not understand or sexuality or anyhing fo that matter we wentand learned abou it and then praised God for teaching and showin us some understanding and clarity.
God gave us all the ability to love one another,hegave us that gift that talent. He did not give us an instruction manual at birth and say “your straight live your lfe with a woman give her your seed and be fruitful in honor and humility.” No the Lord did not do those things. He gave us a heart to love everything and everyone he created unconditionally. I am not saying everything horrible in life is right or the choices we make. Being gay or black or whie or christian or lutheran, or any diversity was not chossen. Being born a certain way whether be you speaking spanish or something you do not choose to be born spanish you either areor your not. Just like being homosexual is not a choice or a way of life style is something your born with.
In the bible yes is says Thou shall not lie with his brother. i have seen othe virsions say thou shall not lie with another man. it is not a commandment. Which version do u think is right. Go buy 1 of every bible you see you will learn that each one has a different way of saying things. In that phrase Lay with your brother or fellow man who here has everbeen born in a big family where you must sleep togeter for there is not enoughbeds or your sons have slept in same bed that is lying wth another man. No where in any phrase does it say NO HOMOSEXUAL SEX WITH ANOTHER MAN IS ALLOWED O YOU GO TO HELL.
And for that matter when the king found out jesus was going to be born he wet and killed thousands of children to try and rid the world of his goodness. What do you think the men and women did to not procreate in that long period. And for that matter God made Man in his image. He made Eve from rib of adam. Where did Cain and Able get there wives to have children. No where they slept WITH TERE MOTHER. Eve and adam only 2 people on earth thy had 2 sons cain nd able. Cain and able had found children ……So once again a part of the bible that is not being persecutied in today’s actual life.
Eatin shellfish is a sin, having sex wheter be oral or intecourse before marriage is a sin, masterbating is sin, stealing,lying,i mean the list goes on and on, in the bibl if you stole they cut your hands off, if u lie they cut your tounge out, in some cases they even stoned you to death like Stephen in the bible did.
So like i said things happe in this world we deal with it we go to therapy we attend support groups parties anythin to try and help us gain our strength back and power of prayer is a blessed thing.