I read The Hunger Games. I’m looking forward to the movie coming out next month.
Really, the story does reflect the present, not the distant future.
Own the original drawing.
Check out my books that are full of cartoons.
the real hunger games
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My name is David Hayward, and I am the nakedpastor. I am a graffiti artist on the walls of religion.
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@ David:
Am I mistaken, but did you just change the words next to your picture from: “graffiti artist on the walls of the church” to “illustrating spiritual paths”?
Even if you didn’t, I wonder if, after these last few years, your path has broaden (especially after leaving the church), from being reactive to the church to now also discussing non-church paths, other faiths and sometimes to even doing illustrations about the human condition without referral to religion.
Maybe the subtitle of your blog could also change to match your change.
do you mean “graffiti artist” as well? eliminating that?
Smiling hugely!
Nah, ya gotta keep that.
What do other readers suggest for the new expanded David?
Of the top of my head:
“Graffiti artist on the walls of life”
“Spiritual graffiti artist!”
@Sabio/Dave
I kind of like the ‘graffiti artist’ sub-title…. besides, a lot of content is still in context of organized church and struggling christians.
Just my two cents.
Illuminating Church Satire
I wonder how many deaths were prevented by Christian relief organizations and individual donations by Christians over the years?
I would bet it’s a whole lot more than the atheists have done.
Uuuuuu, Steve Martin is playing his “Christians are better people than Atheists” card again. Must not have had his coffee yet.
If they didn’t put so much money into their churches they’d have more to give.
@Sabio/ Nancy and David- I noted that David had changed it from `religion` to `church.`
Blessed be.
Sas
I don’t usually have much to contribute here, but this is an area where I actually have a relevant perspective.
I work with a Christian non-proffit group in South America, working with ex-street kids. I see a lot of poverty every day. Sometimes I get frustrated by the sense of disconnect between North America and the rest of the world. But in my experience, the Church has been extremely supportive and generous…not just with the home I run, but with other organizations I know as well.
As I said, sometimes I get frustrated when I go home and see the level of wealth (and waste) we have in North America. But at the same time, there are people who are giving significantly and sacrificially. And that’s encouraging.
I also come from a smaller Canadian community where there aren’t exactly a lot of rich mega-churches. Most churches I know are fairly small and not spending crazy amounts of money on stupid things. That probably helps my positive perspective too. =)
My two cents…
That’s awesome Ken.
Guess I was speaking to the profligate ones who are more bothered about their “mission” than just helping people.
Blessings and bless you on your travels.
Sas x
Sabio, when will you let your friendship and magnanimity spill over to people with whom you don’t agree? Seriously. Not in theory, but the people you meet here, for example?
Maybe you could write something like Matthew Parris, (atheist and gay).
http://thoughts-brigitte.blogspot.com/2008/12/from-times-december-27-2008-as-atheist.html
(I’d link to the original article in The Times, but I just seem to get today’s edition and nothing archived. They want you to subscribe for 2 pounds a week.)
This post, below, which I just found, relates to the same article by Matthew Parris, was interesting, as well. There is included a link to an AlJazeera YouTube video, which I thought fascinating. It looks at things from various angles, including the Pentacostalism in Africa:
http://www.bombasticelement.org/2008/12/africa-christianity-as-part-of.html
For some reason Pentecostalism is taking Africa by storm. From the way I have read about it in the National Post, the reason is that people are learning a different, more disciplined and organized way of life which helps them get ahead. Personally, I also think that there are problems associated with this. The miracle racket I have never believed a word of when it has come in any guise.
As an aside, my pastor’s wife, who is from Barbados, talked about Pentacostalism in Barbados the other day. She was always frightened when at church: the minister shouting and announcing God’s wrath on sinners. There were no Lutheran churches there, but they listened to the Lutheran Hour and got a completely different message.
While we are on Africa, I read and linked to some interesting and critical magazine on the work done there and how it should be improved. It advocates universities and support for elderly relatives who look after orphans, rather than building feel-good orphanages, which disrupt the fabric of the remaining family… etc.
http://thoughts-brigitte.blogspot.com/2012/01/missions-africa-in-crisis.html
@Brigitte:
Before I say anything else to anyone, I want to say thanks to you for your effort to bring more diverse voices into the dicussion and to focus on things which can be observed or reported in the news. I found your post interesting.
@Steve:
Your post was completely unhelpful – perhaps even slanderous.
First: Just because someone is Christian doesn’t mean they give because of their religion. As well, there are many organizations with a Christian heritage, which are now organized secularly, with their volunteers having a wide range of motivations. If you want a comparison, you need to look at what Christianity has motivated people to do (not just what people who happen to be Christian have done).
Second: If you want to make a comparison to another group, you need some way to measure that other group. I don’t think you have a reasonable way in mind to measure atheist giving. If you do, please share your methodology.
Third: Atheism isn’t a fair comparison. Christianity seeks to motivate people to give. Atheism is a lack of a belief. A non-belief. It doesn’t claim to motivate or want to motivate anyone to do anything. You can’t measure which is more true or better solely by seeking how much members of each group live up to the standards of only one of those groups.
Fouth: If you want to make a value-judgement (i.e. Christianity is good for people/the world/the poor/etc.) than you have to be willing to also measure the bad Christianity has done or caused. If the overal outcome is not positive, than atheism (which doesn’t push particular values) might come out neutral and thereby be better for people/the world/the poor or whomever. We can’t know until we look at all the variables.
Fifth: Because we can’t actually measure or determine any of the above, your comment comes off as pure judgemental arrogance. You can’t know what athiests contribute to society vis-a-vis any other group, and so to assume that Christians are better than atheists (which is what you did) is nothing short of pure prejudice.
The irony, of course, is that your post trying to assert that Christians do more good is actually doing bad by discriminating against a particular group. Doing bad while claiming your group does more good undermines your credibility fairly thoroughly.
@Christine.
Yup…you pretty well nailed it in your response to Steve. Well spoken!!
I keep waiting for some hits on these links but there was only one. It must have been Christine. (Thanks for that.)
There are a ton of hits today, ironically, for a recipe for “Kaesesahnetorte”, which is a traditional cream cheese cake.
(Sorry, I’m being goofy.)
Goof away Brigitte x
@ Bridgitte :
Sorry, I couldn’t understand your jab at me. Were you upset because I told SM to sip his coffee before he tried to insult all the Atheists in the world again. Or did you just need a hug?
I’ll take a hug, Sabio, a nice long one.
I speak of all the good that Christians have done through the ages, as opposed to others…and I am told it may be slanderous.
Un-be-lievable.
Sometimes I get the feeling that we reside in two different worlds.
Long before there was Christian charity, there was a strong Jewish understanding of how community was suppose to be. Dealing with the poor, the powerless, and the oppressed was not an excuse for charity, it was a call to live a life of justice and compassion, of generosity and hospitality.
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When you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not reap to the very edges of your field, or gather the gleanings of your harvest. You shall not strip your vineyard bare, or gather the fallen grapes of your vineyard; you shall leave them for the poor and the alien: I am the Lord your God. You shall not steal; you shall not deal falsely; and you shall not lie to one another. And you shall not swear falsely by my name, profaning the name of your God: I am the Lord. You shall not defraud your neighbor; you shall not steal; and you shall not keep for yourself the wages of a laborer until morning. You shall not revile the deaf or put a stumbling block before the blind; you shall fear your God: I am the Lord. You shall not render an unjust judgment; you shall not be partial to the poor or defer to the great: with justice you shall judge your neighbor. You shall not go around as a slanderer among your people, and you shall not profit by the blood of your neighbor: I am the Lord. You shall not hate in your heart anyone of your kin; you shall reprove your neighbor, or you will incur guilt yourself. You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against any of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord.
– NRSV Leviticus 19:9-18
When you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not reap to the very edges of your field, or gather the gleanings of your harvest; you shall leave them for the poor and for the alien: I am the Lord your God.
– NRSV Leviticus 23:22
For the Lord your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great God, mighty and awesome, who is not partial and takes no bribe, who executes justice for the orphan and the widow, and who loves the strangers, providing them food and clothing. You shall also love the stranger, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt.
– NRSV Deuteronomy 10:17-19
If there is among you anyone in need, a member of your community in any of your towns within the land that the Lord your God is giving you, do not be hard-hearted or tight-fisted toward your needy neighbor. You should rather open your hand, willingly lending enough to meet the need, whatever it may be. Be careful that you do not entertain a mean thought, thinking, “The seventh year, the year of remission, is near,” and therefore view your needy neighbor with hostility and give nothing; your neighbor might cry to the Lord against you, and you would incur guilt. Give liberally and be ungrudging when you do so, for on this account the Lord your God will bless you in all your work and in all that you undertake. Since there will never cease to be some in need on the earth, I therefore command you, “Open your hand to the poor and needy neighbor in your land.”
– NRSV Deuteronomy 15:7-11
Remember that you were a slave in Egypt and the Lord your God redeemed you from there; therefore I command you to do this. When you reap your harvest in your field and forget a sheaf in the field, you shall not go back to get it; it shall be left for the alien, the orphan, and the widow, so that the Lord your God may bless you in all your undertakings. When you beat your olive trees, do not strip what is left; it shall be for the alien, the orphan, and the widow. When you gather the grapes of your vineyard, do not glean what is left; it shall be for the alien, the orphan, and the widow. Remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt; therefore I am commanding you to do this.
– NRSV Deuteronomy 24:18-22
So now I bring the first of the fruit of the ground that you, O Lord, have given me.” You shall set it down before the Lord your God and bow down before the Lord your God. Then you, together with the Levites and the aliens who reside among you, shall celebrate with all the bounty that the Lord your God has given to you and to your house. When you have finished paying all the tithe of your produce in the third year (which is the year of the tithe), giving it to the Levites, the aliens, the orphans, and the widows, so that they may eat their fill within your towns, then you shall say before the Lord your God: “I have removed the sacred portion from the house, and I have given it to the Levites, the resident aliens, the orphans, and the widows, in accordance with your entire commandment that you commanded me; I have neither transgressed nor forgotten any of your commandments”
– NRSV Deuteronomy 26:10-13
May he judge your people with righteousness,
and your poor with justice. …
May he defend the cause of the poor of the people,
give deliverance to the needy,
and crush the oppressor. …
For he delivers the needy when they call,
the poor and those who have no helper.
He has pity on the weak and the needy,
and saves the lives of the needy.
From oppression and violence he redeems their life;
and precious is their blood in his sight.
– NRSV Psalm 72:2, 4, 12-14
Give justice to the weak and the orphan;
maintain the right of the lowly and the destitute.
Rescue the weak and the needy;
deliver them from the hand of the wicked.”
– NRSV Psalm 82:3-4
@Steve:
It was your comment about atheists that got you in trouble. It’s the “opposed to others” part that is unbelievable.
“Sometimes I get the feeling that we reside in two different worlds.”
I think that’s because we do.
Hey, Brigitte. Yup, that hit was me. I’ve been to your blog a few times.
I’ll offer another hug, too, if it helps. (I know what’s it’s like to just have that kind of a day.)
Thanks, Christine. Actually, it was a fine day. I just take all the hugs I can get.
Some books even came from Amazon,today. It’s been above freezing, too. So nice. How was your day?
Steve’s point, however, regarding Christians having risked, and also lost, life and limb all over the planet in large numbers over long periods of time, in relief efforts, should be acknowledged.
@Brigitte: I certainly acknowledged his point… wrote quite a bit on it.
I think his central message *was* the “opposed to others” part, and so I commented accordingly.
Do you want me to admit that “Christians hav[e]risked, and also lost, life and limb all over the planet in large numbers over long periods of time, in relief efforts”? (Which actually isn’t at all what Steve said.) Sure. So have many others. Christians have also taken life and limb all over the planet in large numbers over long periods of time in order to forcibly convert people or enforce certain “morals”. What does that prove either?
All peoples do good and bad. History illustrates this well. Steve’s point was to say one group does more good than another, for which I see no evidence at present.
Forcible conversions are no good. I agree. Nor is dragging Christians into court for their faith and killing them off.
Yes, Brigitte. Stating the obvious, perhaps. Not sure what it has to do with the issue at hand.
Would you also assert that Christians are better than others?
If we want to talk statistics over good deeds, perhaps such things are quantifiable, perhaps not. Maybe, there are some measures of average giving of time, talent and treasure by people of different persuasions. What if it were true that on average self-identified “Christians” gave more? It would still only really matter to you how the ones you know treat you. So, I think what is important is that we each have a look at ourselves and how we are behaving the in the present circumstance.
Accusing others of being worse than me is a common human malady. (Sam Scovill, our banned dialectician and “devil” directed me to Hawthorne’s “Goodman Brown” the other day. Afterward, I remembered I had read that in High School.)
Since more people in the world have declared themselves Christians than have declared themselves atheist, it will be obvious that more “Christians” are involved in world relief than “atheists.” You pointed this out. Personally, I don’t find it necessary to quantify this or try and prove any points by it.
Brigitte,
I don’t think you understood what I said. First, I never pointed out anything about there being more Christians than atheists (that would be quite relevant to the calculations, but I didn’t think of that). Certain indicators (like rate of giving) *would* be quantifiable, theoretically, but we don’t have (and like couldn’t possibly collect all of) the necessary data for such things to be very meaningful. But even if we could, such rudimentary indicators would still not speak to motive (my first point) so wouldn’t ultimately be that helpful anyways in any attempt to prove who may be better (or act better) than others.
Steve suggested Christians have done more good than atheists and in so doing (I believe) implied that Christians were better than atheists. I though this was bullcrap and said so. Then, (and perhaps you simply didn’t get the conversation up to that point) you felt it was worth acknowledging Steve’s point after all. Since Steve’s point was that Christians do more good than atheists (with certain implications, in my view), I asked if you also though Christians were better – but it appears you don’t.
So, what is your point exactly? You lost me.
Christine, I assume the cartoons is about Christians doing nothing and therefore being hypocrites. Do you agree with that? At least we agree on not needing to compare.
Actually, in the cartoon, only one person is displaying any outward signs of Christianity – and that person honestly seems to have nothing to give. The others could be anybody.
You could just as easily interpret the cartoon as there not being enough Christians to give, or that only poor people are Christians, or that it doesn’t matter who is a Christian just that people with food share.
I was responding to Steve’s point only, not the cartoon.
On Christians being hypocrites, I guess that happens pretty often – but, again, not exclusively to us. Ultimately, it can be pretty hard not to be a hypocrite on something sometimes, since we all have our baggage and misconceptions and biases. I think the important part is that we are willing to be called on our hypocrisy and, once we realize we are being hypocritical, do something to change it.
Maybe David’s cartoon are an ink-blot test for hypocrisy. That would certainly be something very useful.