Well, in opposition to those, like Mark Driscoll and so many more, who are certain who is going to Hell, how about a cartoon about being surprised who we might meet in Heaven.
Ya… I hear somebody saying, “What do you mean ‘we‘?”
This cartoon isn’t meant to endorse the modern magical ideas of a Heaven. It’s just meant to level the playing field. Which it is.
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It’s all between the ears, so I suggest we all believe we made it.(rolling eyes) Life seems happier that way.
Bullseye!
I think we need to be careful with these sorts of things. There will very likely be surprises both good and bad, but these surprises will be based on our knowledge not God’s criteria.
” the modern magical ideas of a Heaven”
Brilliant. Well said!
Of course I believe heaven is real…in some fashion that may or may not resemble our modern ideas of it.
I love this cartoon David…and I can’t wait to see it play out. I think it does an awesome job of portraying the mindset of so many Christians I know.
“… being surprised who we might meet in Heaven” –I say that a lot.
Here’s a link to something I posted on my blog — A You Tube Video about “Love Wins – An Orthodox View of Salvation”
http://www.bignoise-enterprises.com/blog/2011/10/05/love-wins/
David, I’ve been saying this for years. This is wonderful. I’ve also told folks that they are lucky God gets to decide and not me because I know God has to be more gracious than I am.
A very clear visual representation of what Matthew 25 tells us.
The caption that I like the best: “Where the hell am I?”
So divine in the irony. Thanks for another wonderful jab at the religious mindset.
Connie
In a weird way, it reminds me of Dante’s Inferno, where so many countless, nameless people are in Hell, though Dante does name a few names in each circle.
Whatever rotten things we could say about Mark Driscoll, I don’t believe I ever hear him he say that he knows who’s going to Hell. He says that God already knows. And that people are actually going.
Now, if you don’t believe in a Hell, he sounds absurd, sure. But still, that’s not the same thing as him saying he know he’s going there.
“Who knew?”
Some people’s idea of heaven is other people’s idea of hell.
Just like a dream I had once of anybody and everybody, including the goats, entering through the straight gate.
THANKS STEVE!
Thanks Steve ONLY THE FATHER KNOWS….AND HE KNOWS BEST!
Jesus wandered the dusty streets, healing and exorcising the suffering peasants he met on his way. And he did not do so for any other reason that this: his life was an expression of compassion. He wanted to bring people back to themselves. He wanted to restore people to their rightful place as beloved by God. He wanted the ones who felt unloved and worthless to feel cherished. He cut across the or…thodoxy of his day and refused to allow himself to perpetuate their man made barriers. He was an astonishingly brave healer of religion-damaged souls. And we are only beginning to realise that the religion that now claims to own him as God, is equally in need of his iconoclastic spirit.
Robin Meyers puts it like this: “Orthodoxy’s front door is gilded, but the rusty back door of the early church remains ajar-the one leading to the kitchen behind the creedal looking glass. There sits Jesus, cross-legged, amid the steam and misery of the world… His message is nonjudgmental presence. Without saying a word, the crowd gets it: we all matter; no exceptions.” ~Mark Townsend
I’ve always argued that the cross should be seen as the death of a toxic view of God. God does not punish Jesus for our sins. The cross is a symbol of a God who allows himself to experience the very darkest, most broken and most abandoned reality of what being human can involve.
It is an image of a God who would literally love us to death. Though this may not be something that Pagans find helpful,…
I used to enjoy talking about the cross of Jesus as something that changes humanity’s view of the Divine rather than (as the older substitutionary theories go) changing the Divine’s view about humanity.
In other words it replaces a God of judgement and wrath with a God of compassion and love.
In my book The Path of The Blue Raven I put it this way: “Christ comes to show humans who they are, not what they are not. The sacrificial love displayed on the cross does not change God’s mind about us (as the so called objective views of the Atonement states).
The spectacle of the cross changes us not God!
How? By displaying costly love rather than brutal judgment. If we see Jesus as a literal, perfect offering, a human blood sacrifice, then we have no choice but to view God as wrathful, and who needs his mind changing by having Jesus pay the price for our sins. He dies; we get let off the hook!
But if we see the symbol of the god-man Jesus hanging on a tree as a selfless act of love, joining humankind at its ugliest, lowest, shittiest place, and not retaliating with any sense of hatred or revenge, then there is more chance of our own view of God being changed.
We might even fall in love with such a loving God rather than being terrified of Him.
Thus the Jesus-Tree can either perpetuate a Toxic view of God or it can heal it.” ~Mark Townsend
I’ve always felt that we’ll be surprised by a lot of the people we see–and don’t see–in heaven. Sometimes I wonder how many mass murderers will be there and how many televangelists won’t.
Steven I agree…though lately I have come to believe we will ALL be there eventually.
Heaven has lost its original meaning. I’ve got friends who describe the icecream they’re eating as “heavenly”. Or their weekender up the coast as “heaven”. I think many have come to realise that heaven and the “afterlife” are little more than childish nonsense and have moved on.
Really Robster?
I am glad NOT to be counted among the “many” you refer to. You may believe it to be nonsense…but your view that those who disagree are childish in their thinking actually represents a rather juvenile mindset. It is one thing to consider the world around you and arrive at a conclusion. But to determine that those who don’t arrive at the same conclusion are “childish” in some sort of intellectually stunted sort of way, represents a very small mind indeed.
A person can have childish beliefs without the whole person being childish. No?
And certainly not: “juvenile, intellectually stunted or small minded”
Wow!
Wow indeed!! Could not believe Robster would make such a statement.
(Yes Sabio…I know you directed it at me. But it makes so much more sense applied to Robster’s statement of insult to all believers…lol)
And did me some crap about it only being a personal reflection and not an insult. When one comes into a forum where a discussion of the nature of heaven is taking place and refers to the notion of it as “childish nonsense”…they know EXACTLY how hoe insulting their words are.
My comment was right on…and you both would benefit from reflecting on it.
“And don’t give me some crap” somehow changed to “And did me some crap” in my message. Weird. Gotta proof my comments better. grin
@ Gary
Are there any notions of Heaven, or of God, or of Jesus or of anything in the many varieties of Christianity in Christendom that you see as “childish”.
How about in Wahhabist Islam, Shiite Islam, Wicca Paganism or other beliefs? How about in any versions of Atheism?
Do you think ideas can be childish even though the person is not childish?
Not chasing you down your rabbit hole Sabio. Robster summarily dismissed the entire notion of “heaven and the afterlife” as “childish nonsense”.
My observation, that such a dismissal of other points of view is small minded, stands.
@ Gary,
I suspected you would not want to be questioned on your rant. You are repeatedly saying, “I won’t engage”, and yet you keep engaging. You seem to prefer soliloquy.
I think I have asked very clear, focused and important questions.
I can see why you would not want to answer them.
Seriously Sabio? LMFAO
You seem to have missed the distinction between “I won’t engage”, and I prefer not to engage you.
This nonsense of “Are there any notions of Heaven, or of God, or of Jesus or of anything in the many varieties of Christianity in Christendom that you see as “childish””, perfectly illustrates why. I was very clear in my original comment (to Robster…not to you BTW) that there is a difference between arriving at a conclusion, and dismissing other conclusions as “childish nonsense”. I know you are not so dense you missed my point…but as you always do, you tried to falsely rephrase it in a way you could then attack. This is why I ignore you…you do not allow my positions or statements to be mine…you presumptuously think you have the right to change them or fit them into your paradigm. BTW – Of course there are many views that I disagree with. But you will never hear me referring to an entire belief system as “childish nonsense”. To arrive at such a conclusion, that views or conclusions different than my own are childish nonsense, is (I think I have said before…lol) small minded.
Frankly Sabio…I find you as arrogant as Robster’s statement was. If you cannot accept my stated views as my views without constantly trying to change their meaning…then seriously…leave me the hell alone. I have no patience for your games.
@ Gary,
It is simple. Robster said,
He never declared “an entire belief system as childish nonsense” (your quote).
He never said, ” your view that those who disagree are childish” (again quoting you)
My point: Calling an idea silly is very different from calling a person silly. But indeed many people can’t tell the difference and if you tell that, “That is a silly idea.” They become emotion and generalize and say, “Oh, so you think I am silly. Oh, I am totally silly, am I.”
Robster didn’t say that Gary and neither did I. When an idea you believe is attacked, you need not feel that you are attacked.
Good night Sabio.