by Nakedpastor David Hayward · August 12, 2011
COMMUNITY BOOKS ART TEES
Tags: beggarcartooncomicDavid Haywardhandoutsmoneynakednakedpastorstreet person
31 Jan, 2012
10 Nov, 2015
27 Apr, 2013
“… but can I interest you in some Christian literature?”
Or maybe an original cartoon on how mean the “church” has been to us. “There is a class of persons to whom by all spiritual affinity I am bought and sold; for them I will go to prisons if need be; but your miscellaneous popular charities; the education at college of fools; the building of meeting-houses to the vain end to which many now stand; alms to sots; and the thousandfold Relief Societies;–though I confess with shame I sometimes succumb and give the dollar, it is a wicked dollar, which by and by I shall have the manhood to withhold.” Emerson. Do your work and we shall know you, says Carlyle.
This too, exposes us.
Naked Me, just asking for IT (do I have to spell IT out)? Naked Pastor, begging for a facebook flock, Naked You… Naked Emperor .. . All of us crazy egos, says Sherwood Anderson, hungry for love. All of us, walking on by, walk on by. 2 faces of Eve.
Sam: who’s begging for a facebook flock? And why does my growing fb fans seem to bother you?
Sam we’re getting into deep stuff here!
The need to be validated and heard is a important part of our psychic needs. There is an authentic way to do this and an ego driven way.
In my opinion David is speaking out authentically from an open heart. Yet none of us can ‘see’ a motive little own ourselves – only the Divine can glimpse our psychic innards.
When I suppressed the need to speak out through false humility and a sense of rejection, my body reacted by producing chronic laryngitis. When I started to write and publicize my work it disappeared.
Is not a non-denominational, interfaith, “drop-in” Ministry; without a great and impressive building, without gold, without silver, without idols, without dogma, hierarchy and social pressure the purest form of expression of worship Sam?
A Pastor without robes, not on a stage, without a coterie of underlings and rote ritual engaging his parishioners in genuine and open conversation; how can that be seen as self-aggrandizing?
Sam, since we don’t actually hear the Gospel here, it is not really a church, and so David does not have a “flock”. (You see: definitions matter. Or do they.)
As he says it is about “fans”. You’ve got it all wrong, Sam. Get thee hence with thy dialectic.
David: I admit it does, and have admitted it from the start. IF these folk have all sought you out, somehow, to become FB friends out of some magnet attraction, I’m’ impressed (though still somewhat bothered, the satan in me), but if you gleaned them by skimming off each page you come to, without all it’s add-a-a-friend (that’s you you got me, and I’m grateful for the action) then that grinds me a bit, as does the hawking of your cartoons and originals–that’s where the “begging for a flock” originated. The guy IS naked and begging. Aren’t we all? I am.
Dylan, John, and Brigitte: yes to all of you. Laryngitus has never been a symptom, and I express my self, always looking decent argument. Begging for it, actually. Naked and not always pretty. As Steve Martin says, “this to exposes us.” That’s the point, yes?
@Sam – I always assumed you were David’s biggest fan 🙂 I mean, I see David’s cartoons frequently and rarely comment, but I seem to always see your name in the thread.
In all seriousness, I think what David does is a good deal more honest than what transpires within the 4 walls of the church. Yeah, he’s looking to accumulate a FB following and sell stuff. Call it a flock, call it fans, who cares. Everyone’s got to make a living, and the lucky ones get to do what they love and are skilled at. Nothing to apologize for there.
I may be his biggest stalker–& I’ve told him his cartoons generate some of the best converse-action around, and I appreciate it a lot. If I could get this much action from my colleageus, I’d probably lay off the Naked Pastor somewhat. 2 strands to the responses: The Choir (praise and appreciation), the Critics (both theist and atheist) The issues are profound, and I think this is the Conversation of conversations, and am grateful to appreciate and help sustain–if my quarreling and quibbling don’t undermine. (Why should it? We’re all nekkid here, yes, except for the Emperor and his new clothes).
Okay, I know this isn’t the point you are trying to make, but I don’t give money to people on the street who ask for it. It rewards someone for standing on a street side and asking someone who works for their income to give them some of theirs. We have support services for that in our communities and I give through those methods.
I also don’t lie to them. When someone on a street asks me if I have money to spare I tell them I have money and plans to use it.
Guilt is bad. It makes us do things that aren’t helpful to ourselves or others. Giving out of kindness and compassion is one thing. Giving out of guilt should be resisted.
My first thought to the picture was: here go the Western Democracies (naked), no more money. Who will take over?
To be totally “incorrect” I am hoping it will be the Chinese, who at least are becoming Christians by numbers, rather than the oil-rich, Sharia-whielding.
I have read that there is a huge number of under-ground Christian in Islamic countries who can’t come out because your life is required for conversion under the Koran. I am still looking for cartoons on this sort of thing. But if all dissent gets its head chopped off… Well, the Chinese are kind of the same way, still. Christians meet at 5:00 AM before the police gets up.
Sam, I don’t think you will do well under either system, either. Off to prison or mental institute in a flash.
Nakedpastor might be alright as long as he keeps limiting his criticism to Christianity (which can bear some criticism.)
Dylan Morrison Author
August 12, 2011 | 10:11 am
Yet none of us can ‘see’ a motive little own ourselves – only the Divine can glimpse our psychic innards.
______NP’s caricatures and comments certainly point to a motive in many instances. And it simply is not true, often times we can see and individual’s motives or for that matter, an organization or nation.
I’ve done my mental institution time, and again.
Made me the myn I am today. Prison: only a brief part of a night in jail. Not as long as Thorea.
Literally: behind bars, embarrassing. Yrs in naked-ness. Sam
I guess I am the toasty, warm fellow. Just an hour ago I got the call. “Hey pastor, I have to get —– to the Dr., can you give me some gas?” After this, the 14 time, I told him, “This is the last time.” Paint me the bad guy if you will.
i’m the same way fishon.
Fishon, you are definitely a bad guy. How can you give him more money for gas to go to the Dr.?
This could probably be the subject of its own cartoon: How to deal with the increasing number of people in our society who are truly NOT needy but act as though they are?
I tend to agree with Jeff, mostly because of where I live. There is a rash of people with signs standing on street corners begging for money for food or gas or diapers or whatever. The thing is, this county has a support system for such things, if they would only ask for it! (We have a unified charity network for churches and non-profits. If you have a need, you go to one place, and it sends you to the one that can help you.) When people come to the church and ask for food, and you send them to the office that will send them to the food bank, they won’t go. I’ve never understood that. (I’ve been homeless, and I’ve needed food stamps. I already know I am not too proud to ask.)
Part of the problem with beggars is that some people have figured out that its an easy way to make a decent living. No kidding…there was an expose on this on one of the local TV stations. They followed one of the street beggars to her rather large house. She wasn’t poor or homeless. Also, my experience is that people want CASH. I forget if it was Tulsa or Oklahoma City, but the local charities got together and came up with a voucher that you can give to anyone on the street asking for food. This voucher gave a free bus trip to the Salvation Army where they would get fed, a bed, a shower, and clean clothes. NO ONE wanted the voucher. They wanted cash. I’ve worked for Red Cross during disasters, and had upper class people come to the office looking for money to fix something on their house, knowing full well they have insurance and money of their own. They just wanted a handout.
In Jesus’ time there were genuinely needy people. There were no services for the crippled, blind, deaf, etc. They lived on the streets. In our modern societies, we have organizations that take care of people who have special needs. I am really hesitant to think that Jesus had in mind to support people’s addictions and irresponsibilities. I do not think that is what He meant. I do think, however, He wanted us to help those with real needs that they could not fix themselves. There are many ways to do that very thing other than throwing money on the pavement.
Again I agree with Jeff that our giving should be without guilt. I would never give to one of those people on the street corners with signs. However, if I saw someone like in the cartoon, in the cold and no clothes, I would do something. That is a genuine need.
I can’t see your motive for replying to me! ?????????
We’ll just have to disagree on the motive seeing abilities.
Wow, but you do have heavy coat, boots, scarf, hat and gloves. And probably under that heavy coat are warm winter clothes. Shows how we operate under tunnel vision and only see one solution to problems.
Dylan Morrison Author
August 12, 2011 | 3:57 pm
I can’t see your motive for replying to me! ?????????
__Sorry about that.
I took you to be saying that we “can’t” know the motives of others. I was disagreeing. I think often times we can. No biggy.
We’ll not fall out!
My first thought was the usual, ‘…but giving handouts is a problem…/…I give to charity…’
But then, as I was reading through the comments, I scrolled up, and took another look at the picture.
David didn’t draw a man in tatters, or someone that looked homeless, or someone with a sign.
He drew a person, naked, shivering, and with their hand out.
I put metaphor aside. When we see the real need someone has, when there is no question that they need immediate help, that we can provide, what is our response?
The person’s hand may be out for money, but… what they need is self-evident.
Just some thoughts.
To me the cartoon applies to all people, not just Christians. It also applies to more than just those who are financially needy. It’s about having the ability to help, yet not helping because we have a skewed view of charity and/or caring.
So many times we do not help because we think we are unable to help. The truth is that we may be willing to do what we want to help, but are not always willing to do what is needed.
naked people make me nervous… guess my reaction reveals as much about me as it does them. always enjoy the insights your post provoke. thanks
For me, seeing someone in a vulnerable situation is a harsh reminder that I too could easily be in the same position. That can be an unnerving experience to those who haven’t seen or experienced such things for themselves or perhaps recently have, and are trying to forget.
In other words, your reaction is quite normal.:-)
I am saddened by comments like Jeff’s and Jon’s. Partly because things are not nearly as rosy as they portray, and partly because Jesus didn’t tell us to give a means test before we give a cup of cold water or clothing to someone. From my experience, there are many people who can use the food, and very willingly accept whatever I can offer.
Sure, there are those that scam the system, but if you were one of the honest ones, would you want all to be tarred with the same brush?
Thanks NP for another thought provoking cartoon.
The problem with the social supports, which are good and do exist, is that they don’t necessarily work for everyone. Many people who are homeless or jobless are so because of addictions or mental illnesses, while the systems referred to above are too often designed to deal with poverty only. Mental health supports, in particular, are often lacking and there is still a terrible stigma with regards to mental illness. People end up falling through the cracks, unaware of the supports available or unable to benefit from them. Some of these people may indeed be genuinely starving.
And there are other problems, too. Where I live, shelters fill up too fast and turn people away even in life-threateningly cold conditions. Homeless people sometimes save up in case they need to pay for a motel some night to save their lives. Cash works even when society’s supports fail. Just an example.
This hit home for me. I’ve been struggling with what to say, what to do when faced with someone begging in the streets. Do I give or not? How do I embody Christ to them? How do I let Christ live through me? Too often, I turn away.
It’s the “beggar within” in “the kingdom within” that stops me constantly on the “streets within”–my poor I have with me always. Do I attend or turn away? The beggar without? That’s a course of another color. “Salvation” (esoteric) on the one hand; “social gospel” on the other hand. They are incommensurate–but complementary if I succeed in not to conflating, collapsing, or confusing the two. It’s possible this might make sense to Fishon, maybe even Brigitte. But I’m not counting on it.
Naked Pastor’s cartoons artfully set up the terrible tension between sympathizing with the victim and yet identifying also with the victim-izer. Unless, of course, one fails to feel both sides of the equation: in which case we probably side with the underdog and hate the bully and miss the genius of the cartoons altogether. Still: the agony lingers, and one, like Elizabeth, wonders how to resolve the beggar-&-begged “within”–and ends up, say, occupying Wall Street as it were: casting asparagus at the Bad Guys Without.
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