Gandhi said, “I am a Christian. I am a Jew. I am a Muslim. I am a Hindu.” I know what he means.
Two days ago a woman told me, “I am an atheist.” I said, “I know what you mean. In many ways I am too.”
Sometimes our categories fail in categorizing us accurately. But categories almost never fail in making us categorical when we cling to them to tightly.
Own the original drawing.
Buy a print of this cartoon.
Get my book full of cartoons like this one from amazon.com, amazon.ca, amazon.de.
My name is David Hayward, and I am the nakedpastor. I am a graffiti artist on the walls of religion.
Categories like labels like words like taxonomies like disciplines like traditions like pictures
movies fashions, tattoos, golden calves: all of them double edged, yes? Define and confine or merely suggest and indicate. “How can we wait without idols>” say W.H. Auden. We almost can not. Maybe we can not. Necessary, but insufficient: out words, labels, categories… I get stuck in them. Get stuck in my own distinction. Stuck I am. Help.
Agree!
Love this line … “categories almost never fail in making us categorical when we cling to them to tightly.”
Holding categories (and most other things in life) loosely seems to bring me more peace than clinging tightly.
We pretty much all live our lives as ‘practcal atheists’.
Why follow the Living God when I can be my own god and have so much more fun and be accountable to no one but…me?
And why bother learning how to spell?
Labels and categories are short cuts to taking the time to develop relationships and community.
The labels and categories are only to make us feel good about ourselves at other people’s expense. No one is exempt: even those who claim to be enlightened and advanced, who berate us for not helping the poor, do not realize that they harbor a prejudice toward what they perceive as wealth. Its our motives that are most important, not words. Otherwise, all that we are doing is being politically correct.
Pity we couldn’t do a Groundhog day type experiment.
Meet a Christian for the first time and introduce yourself as a fellow Christian.
Meet the same person and introduce yourself as an agnostic.
Meet the same person and introduce yourself as an atheist.
Observe carefully all 3 reactions from our new friend and then meditate on the power of belief labels to influence ‘Christian love’.
I am reminded of a quote from Augustine, “There are those whom God has that the church has not.”
So true… I struggle with the word “Christian.” I acknowledge that I am no longer a “Christian” in any meaningful sense of the word, but I am certainly a follower and lover of Jesus.
Crystal–I struggle with the word “love” –as for the word “Christian” –it’s been reduced to a bumper sticker and a fish on the back of an SUV.
I love Paul’s Corinthian description of the word “love” but I can’t claim to have it, and find myself speaking with tons of angles and sounding like a clanging gong show. Pity–but faking it don’t help, in fact just covers up the gap.
FYI, when trying to “share” on Facebook, the cartonn does not come up. First time this has happened (and I share a lot!).
hi Cutch. I don’t understand why facebook does that sometimes. it just acts weird now and then. keep trying is my advice!
Needing God for a sense of personal accountability is immature theology. It is understandable that some people need to start there, but it is only a starting place not a final destination.
God wants a loving relationship with each of us, not dutiful worship and ecstatic praise.
When the simple message of Jesus (loving God and loving others, often through simple caring actions), was transmuted into “faith” then I think we lost something precious. I’m sorry but I cannot help but see a radical shift from the message of Jesus’ life in the Gospels to something different part way through Acts.
It seems Christianity is more a product of the Apostle Paul than the beautifully simple stories presented by Jesus: the samaritan helping someone who had been assaulted and abused, the prodigal son, the many examples of caring, Jesus seen as someone loving life and associating with all strata of society.
Such a simple message of inclusion into the kingdom of God to become a convoluted, hierarchical and spiritually focused set of laws and practices. Instead of loving God by loving those around you.
Today we “fight” about what to believe rather than who to love. Who is in and who is out. My non christian friends see the Christian emperor in all of it’s nakedness and are repulsed.
Dylan, find out what they are and start from the opposite direction (i.e. christian-agnostic-atheist to an atheist) and watch their reaction to the conversion. The results should indicate what you’re trying to find out.
Of course, I’d never seriously recommend messing with someone in that way though.
Gandhi said, “I am a Christian. I am a Jew. I am a Muslim. I am a Hindu.”
———-Gandhi is dead and in hell!
There is no hell.
The Kingdom of God is here and now – live in it.
Dylan Morrison Author: it’s a great idea! Someone should do it with candid camera.
I think I would love to meet each equally well and that I would be my authentic, slightly rude and sassy, very earnest and cheerful at the same time self. I would love to enter into discussion with each one equally, if they were so inclined, and I would be right as usual! SNORT! LOL.
Well, to be honest, as an extrovert, I would love to meet anyone who is willing to discuss sex, politics or religion, and music. (Please, not hockey or football! These are the categories I completely reject, I know that excludes a lot of people, sad to say.–Other than that you can have your choice of beverage and topic.)
Doug Sloan
July 19, 2011 | 8:54 pm
There is no hell.
—–So you say. I’ll go with the Bible over you.
The Kingdom of God is here and now – live in it.
—–I am living it, and to the fullest.
But Gandhi is dead–that’s a fact.
He’s in hell, that’s a fact.
Such callousness beggars belief. Read your history books sir. Gandhi endured the followers of Jesus who bled India dry.
We can either
worship a God of war, hate and exclusion
OR
be in relationship with a God of unrestrained love and unconditional grace
and that includes you and me and Ghandi and all with no exceptions.
a God of unrestrained love and unconditional grace
——I suppose Ghandi is eat at the table with Pol Pot, Mao, Stalin, Dr. Mengele, etc!
Ian
July 19, 2011 | 11:48 pm
Gandhi endured the followers of Jesus who bled India dry.
——Punny arguement sir. That is like laying all the ills of radical Islam at the feet of all of Islam.
Grace means no conditions and no exceptions – otherwise, it is not grace.
Grace’ll kick some ass before it pats me on the head–there there, all is well and all is well
(but it wasn’t so well a bit ago.) Gracias; thank thank you – so gratefu: what a feeling. Don’t intend to be theo-logical here. Just sayin.
Doug Sloan
July 20, 2011 | 1:18 pm
Grace means no conditions and no exceptions – otherwise, it is not grace.
——-Sorry, but that is not a statement that holds water, biblically. There IS a condition to RECEIVING the grace.
“But Gandhi is dead–that’s a fact.
He’s in hell, that’s a fact.”
-there’s that love of neighbor that i’ve come to expect from fishon and his ilk. keep saying what you believe fishon, you’ll only drive more people to Gandhi than to the church. and then you’ll have to answer for that.
well fishon… as a matter of fact, it is according to your theology that Gandhi is in hell. and thank God your theology doesn’t determine our outcomes. when Gandhi said, ” I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians”, i suppose that wasn’t enough to get him out of your idea of hell.
zero1ghost
July 20, 2011 | 3:41 pm
“But Gandhi is dead–that’s a fact.
He’s in hell, that’s a fact.”
-there’s that love of neighbor that i’ve come to expect from fishon and his ilk. keep saying what you believe fishon, you’ll only drive more people to Gandhi than to the church. and then you’ll have to answer for that.
—–Apparently you don’t understand, “Love thy neighbor….” Are you so holy, so righteous, so devine that you love a dead Stalin? Did you ever meet Stalin, eat a meal with Stalin, vaction together? And you love him?
Aha, you give me to much credit and power. I can NOT drive anyone to a dead Gandhi any more than I can drive anyone to Jesus.
nakedpastor
July 20, 2011 | 3:52 pm
well fishon… as a matter of fact, it is according to your theology that Gandhi is in hell. and thank God your theology doesn’t determine our outcomes. when Gandhi said, ” I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians”, i suppose that wasn’t enough to get him out of your idea of hell
——-David, you can play your games ["as a matter of fact, it is according to your theology"] as to what the Bible says. And you know very well, it is NOT my [private] theology. It is right there in the Bible. You have to explain it away, I don’t.
Any theology can be challenged with: “According to your theology.” You say, “Love your neighbor as your self.” I say, “Big deal. That is according to your theology. I choose to hate my neighbor.” Come up with something better than that.
nakedpastor
July 20, 2011 | 3:52 pm
when Gandhi said, ” I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians”, i suppose that wasn’t enough to get him out of your idea of hell.
—-By the way, many Islamic terrorist like my Christ; believe in Christ as a prophet. Like that gets them out of hell anymore than Gandhi.
Labels are reductions. I think we use them so we can trick ourselves into thinking we know what we are talking about.
In a sense labels reveal our lack of intelligence, because they are simplistic and never contain all that something is.
I think we can only know within the moment.
Richard Harty
July 20, 2011 | 11:06 pm
Labels are reductions. I think we use them so we can trick ourselves into thinking we know what we are talking about.
——–I don’t think you even know what you mean.
I like labels. Ducks: Oregon “Ducks”—Seahawks: Seattle “Seahawks”—–Giants: San Francisco “Giants”—-Obama: Political affiliation, Democrate [tells me all I need to know—-Christian Fundamentalist: “Me”————-American: Love that label——-Heterosexist: That fits me to a T.
Labels are here to stay. Chill out. Dang, people are way to up-tight.
YOU:In a sense labels reveal our lack of intelligence, because they are simplistic and never contain all that something is.
—–Now that is a laugher. Labels lead the intelligent to not stop at a label; they ask questions that the label brings to mind. ————Jerry is a Christian. “Well Jerry, as a Christian, what do you believe about…? And so on and so on.
YOU:I think we can only know within the moment.
—–My lord, what does that mean?
Careful now—-did you think, “Idiot? Everyone knows what I mean.”
Me in a previous post: Labels are reductions. I think we use them so we can trick ourselves into thinking we know what we are talking about.
fishon——–I don’t think you even know what you mean.
This is pretty easily illustrated.
What does the label fishon tell us about you?
fishon, i used to think you were smart and some what bible literate. now i view you as a poor ideologue, utterly confused in the wilderness of your own prejudice and triumphalism.
“Apparently you don’t understand, “Love thy neighbor….” Are you so holy, so righteous, so divine that you love a dead Stalin?”
-no. Gandhi isn’t Stalin. beside the point, God loves them both. and forgiveness offered to each for whatever wrong they did, same with you and same with me.
“Aha, you give me to much credit and power. I can NOT drive anyone to a dead Gandhi any more than I can drive anyone to Jesus.”
-then why get online and talk about it? why evangelize? why spout hate and judgment? why spout love and grace and good news?
Richard Harty
July 21, 2011 | 2:36 am
Me in a previous post: Labels are reductions. I think we use them so we can trick ourselves into thinking we know what we are talking about.
fishon——–I don’t think you even know what you mean.
This is pretty easily illustrated.
What does the label fishon tell us about you?
________Why don’t you take a crack at it?
A label is the opening to questions. Kinda like when I ran into “Nakepastor,” I asked questions. His label opened up a dialogue.
zero1ghost
July 21, 2011 | 10:57 am
fishon, i used to think you were smart and some what bible literate. now i view you as a poor ideologue, utterly confused in the wilderness of your own prejudice and triumphalism.
___I admit to my own prejudices. At least I do that as opposed to most who deny having ANY prejudice.
___I also admit to confussion at times. Do you?
___”Triumpalism.” Only in “Messiah,” Christ Jesus.
“Apparently you don’t understand, “Love thy neighbor….”
___I understand the biblical principle quiet well.
-no. Gandhi isn’t Stalin. beside the point, God loves them both. and forgiveness offered to each for whatever wrong they did, same with you and same with me.
___Yes, God loved them both. But you hit the nail on the head when you said, “and forgiveness offered.” In both cases there is a huge case to be made than neither took up the offer.
___”For it is by grace you have been saved, through ‘FAITH,’….”
Now if you are a universalist you convenintly leave off ‘faith.’
YOU:“Aha, you give me to much credit and power. I can NOT drive anyone to a dead Gandhi any more than I can drive anyone to Jesus.”
-then why get online and talk about it?
___Because I enjoy it.
why evangelize?
___Because Jesus told his followers too do that.
I would have thought you knew that!
why spout hate and judgment?
___Ah, there is the rub. You see me as spouting hate and judgment. If we had the time, and I had the energy, I would have you be specific about what hate and judgment I have spouted.
Let me help you out here. I call something a sin, and then someone says, “Fishon,” you are so judgmental and full of hate [happened many times on here]. So my question to that accuser is, is there anything in this world you consider sin, and yes, call it sin in public? Well, you and I know that every person sees and believes some things are sin, and speak about it. So the point is this. If I am a hater and judgmental for my view–so are they for their view. Most on this sight would say stealing is a sin. Does that me they hate or judge the thief?
___The practice of homosexuality is a sin.
So to say that, that makes me a hater, right?
___Those two fellows that tortured and murderer Matthew Shepard ARE murderers.
So to say that makes me a hater of them, right???
___To steal someones pension is a sin.
So that makes me a hater of Bernie, right?
Well zero, if you answer yes to any of those questions——then I am quessing you are a hater and judmental too.
“Fishon” For Myn. “Gandhi in Hell.” Couple of not-bad names for rock bands, I bet. “Donald and the Buffaloed.”
_”For it is by grace you have been saved, through ‘FAITH,’….”
-yet faith without works is dead. what does it mean when the tree produces good fruit without ever confessing itself as a Christian tree? what about the Sign of Jonah? What about the fact that when God wins, God doesn’t win half way, or in part, or leaves people behind, but I take triumph in Jesus as Messiah because that means NO ONE is left behind. that is the good news.
are there consequences for not accepting and taking on the faith or twisting it to suit our purposes? yes. are they eternal? no.
____The practice of homosexuality is a sin.
So to say that, that makes me a hater, right?
-it’s not and yes you are a hater.
no denying i’m a hater and judgmental. i hate what you and your ilk have done to Christianity and the Good News of Jesus Christ and judge it neither good news, or of Jesus Christ. that’s the doctrine of sin. the sin in you, i am guilty of as well, the sin in me is also in you. I fall on the grace of God, there I stand and cannot do otherwise. The God I know does not just stick to a certain tribe or creed but blows where God wills. all will be united one day, all will be tested and purified like gold in a fire. and all well come into the love of God which surpasses all understanding. ALL.
Me: What does the label fishon tell us about you?
fishon:Why don’t you take a crack at it?
fishon:A label is the opening to questions. Kinda like when I ran into “Nakepastor,” I asked questions. His label opened up a dialogue.
This is beside the point.
I said a label is a reduction and you seemed to imply that it was difficult to understand that concept.
If the label “fishon” told us ANYTHING about you then I wouldn’t have to ask any questions would I?
“Neither logic nor sermons convince.” Whitman. Observe.
zero1ghost
—–You get the last word.
Richard Harty
July 21, 2011 | 1:05 pm
I said a label is a reduction and you seemed to imply that it was difficult to understand that concept.
—-Good assessment. I do not understand “label is a reduction.”
If the label “fishon” told us ANYTHING about you then I wouldn’t have to ask any questions would I?
—-Maybe you not knowing the term tells me something about you. You are not an avid fisherman. “Fishon, fishon, fishon!”
sam scoville
July 21, 2011 | 1:13 pm
“Neither logic nor sermons convince.” Whitman. Observe.
_____Whitman was correct. However, we are told to preach and teach, and leave the rest up to the Holy Spirit.
1 Corinthians 1:21
For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
I have groan to appreciate what it means to be a fool for christ’s sakes: ridiculous to the smarty-pants, offensive to the conscientious. No doubt.
Sometimes foolishness is just that…
fishon—-Good assessment. I do not understand “label is a reduction.”
If you don’t understand what it is then you have no basis to comment on it.
Richard Harty
July 21, 2011 | 7:39 pm
fishon—-Good assessment. I do not understand “label is a reduction.”
If you don’t understand what it is then you have no basis to comment on it.
____A’ Richard, you might check this out.
fishon
July 21, 2011 | 1:03 am
Richard Harty
July 20, 2011 | 11:06 pm
YOU Said: Labels are reductions. I think we use them so we can trick ourselves into thinking we know what we are talking about.
I said——–I don’t think you even know what you mean.
You might notice, Richard, I NEVER did comment on the good, bad, or ugly of “Labels are reductions.” I VERY CLEARLY said: I don’t think you even know what you mean.
Get a clue, man.
Labels are what we give ourselves or others to define who we are and what we believe at the moment.
I am so glad that God does not label me anything but loved.
BTW, after reading the comments so far in this thread ,for the the record, I am glad that Fishon is not God.